Louis Talks To Jimmy Cannon After Walcott 1

[Dr. Z]

I can understand the desire to outst Donovan, but it could simply be that they didn't want someone so familiar with Louis' style, more than they thought the man crooked.

I could see me making the same demand but not necessarily thinking Donovan was crooked.

His refereeing was awful in some Joe Louis matches. He only fave Tommy Farr just one round! We can all see the film and smell the BS. He was an MSG ref and one of Louis mangers, and convicted numerous runner had an in there. MSG at the time had problems with fixed matches. I make nothing up!

Didn't Donovan have Louis close in the first Scheming match?! Closer than the action indicates! Schmeling was well in the lead on a fair score card prior to his stoppage win over Louis. Hmmm...

And Donovan did not DQ Joe Louis vs Buddy Bear.

• Louis dropped Baer with a right in the sixth round. The challenger rose at the count of seven, only to be knocked down again. With the crowd roaring, Baer staggered to his feet at the count of nine, and the bell rang to end the round. Louis didn't hear the bell, and he rushed across the ring and floored Baer with a right. Baer had to be carried to his corner by his handlers. When the bell rang to start the seventh round, Baer was still out. Baer's manager, , and his trainer, , argued that Louis should be disqualified for hitting Baer after the bell. When they refused to leave the ring, Donovan disqualified Baer.
• Baer barley beat Donovan's count of ten when he got up from the second knockdown in the sixth round. Timekeeper Charley Reynolds later stated that he counted Baer out, but the challenger was permitted to continue fighting by Donovan, who tacitly overruled the timekeeper.

Post-Fight Quotes

• Ancil Hoffman: "The last blow of the fight was struck at least three seconds after the bell sounded ending the sixth round."
• Arthur Donovan: "That talk about Louis hitting Baer after the bell is baloney. The blow started before the bell sounded."
• Buddy Baer: "I heard the bell and then was hit as I was dropping my hands."
• Arthur Donovan: "I disqualified Baer because his seconds refused to leave the ring. As long as I'm refereeing, I insist that my orders be followed."
• Ancil Hoffman: "We didn't leave the ring when Donovan told us to because Buddy was entitled to his full minute of rest before starting the seventh. Buddy should have won on a foul right then."

His referring was questionable and partial to Louis. The Walcott camp smelled a rat and would not allow him to be the ref in that fight!


His scoring was off relative to the action shown in the Godoy fight was awful. One judge had it for Godoy 10-4. Hmm....

[Dr. Z]

More on the crooked man in other fights which I did not research.

	141¾	143	D-PTS	10/10		, , ,
ref: The decision of the ten round draw was hardly popular with the audience of 5, 000, who thought that Archer had won the bout. New York Ti

			185	191	D-PTS	10/10		, , ,
ref: 4-6 5-5 8-2 Bettina down for a 1-count in the 5th.

>> Donovan score card is way off.

134½135W-UD15/15, , , ref: 8-7 8-7 11-3
World Lightweight Title

This bout "was crowded with thrills from the first bell to the last" but, "applying the law more severely than ever before and certainly more painful than it ever has been applied in a championship bout, " Referee Donovan penalized Armstrong five rounds (2nd, 5th, 7th, 9th, 11th) for low blows. "The title was not won on competition alone but on fighting rules and ethics. Four of these rounds Armstrong won on competition alone without a doubt.... On this observer's scoresheet Armstrong was the victim of an injustice." James P. Dawson, New York Times

Paid attendance: 29, 088; Gross receipts: $137, 925.77; Net receipts: $115, 651.81; Ambers's purse: $23, 398.85; Armstrong's purse: $40, 947.99

		195	185½	L-PTS	10/10		, , ,
ref: Mann down in first round but had 20 seconds respite as referee warned Godoy about hitting on breaking. (New York Times)

		124½	126	W-KO	9/15		, , ,
2:52 ref: Crowley was knocked down in the 8th. He was knocked down again in the 9th and took the count claiming he was fouled. Referee Donovan, disallowed this claim, and ruled the punch to be a legal blow.

		117¼	117¼	L-MD	15/15		, , ,
ref: 7-7 6-9 5-10 Referee Artie Donovan scored the fight 7-7-1 in rounds for Escobar, but voted for Salica on the grounds of "more effective punching and in better physical condition at the end of the bout." 08/28/1935 New York Times 196 225¼ W-SD 10/10 , , , ref: An unpopular decision, as 11, 000 people booed the verdict. Referee Donovan voted for Risko, after Judges Mathison (for Campolo) & Patrick (Risko) split.

		215	223¾	W-SD	10/10		, , ,
ref: "The blond British giant had hardly had time to make a few preliminary gestures last night when he was in full retreat, doubled up and badly punished by a crushing succession of short pile driving rights to the body. The shaggy-haired, towering Argentine was on his foe like a tiger, delivering body blows that made shuffling Phil wince and become a distinct shade paler.... Scott;s margin was so close that it took a 2 to 1 decision to give him the victory. He received the vote of the two judges but Referee Arthur Donovan cast his ballot for Campolo." (Associate Press )

Okay that is a small sample for Box Rec on fights I have not seen that they report scores and nots on, Donovan IMO was crooked.

[billeau2]

Walcot could make anyone look bad. he had excellent timing and like Schmelling was a great technician/counter puncher. I find it interesting that Louis had a problem coming in so light. This attitude reflects major differences in the sport then and now.

[Anthony342]

Walcot could make anyone look bad. he had excellent timing and like Schmelling was a great technician/counter puncher. I find it interesting that Louis had a problem coming in so light. This attitude reflects major differences in the sport then and now.

Yep, even Marciano in the first fight. And that also might have been the size difference as well. Rocky even said that was his toughest fight when asked at his retirement press conference in 1956.

[Dr. Z]

I often see Jack Johnson and Joe Louis, two fighters who lost ( each man was KO'd at least twice by ) cruiser weights or light heavyweights under 200 pounds. They also received some gift decisions or draws from the judges. Yet some view them as top five heavyweights of all time. Why? Asking the fans who rate them as top 5 of heavyweights.

No one would pick a fighter that size vs. Tyson Fury, Usyk, or Hrgovic. Not a chance. Same for Klitschko and Lewis.

[Ivich]

I often see Jack Johnson and Joe Louis, two fighters who lost ( each man was KO'd at least twice by ) cruiser weights or light heavyweights under 200 pounds. They also received some gift decisions or draws from the judges. Yet some view them as top five heavyweights of all time. Why? Asking the fans who rate them as top 5 of heavyweights.

No one would pick a fighter that size vs. Tyson Fury, Usyk, or Hrgovic. Not a chance. Same for Klitschko and Lewis.

Start your own threads dont jump in with subjects that have nothing to do with threads.Try and show some manners you ill bred POS

[QueensburyRules]

- - Don't matter in that Louis gave JJoe an immediate rematch and knocked him stiff making the controversial first fight moot...

[billeau2]

I often see Jack Johnson and Joe Louis, two fighters who lost ( each man was KO'd at least twice by ) cruiser weights or light heavyweights under 200 pounds. They also received some gift decisions or draws from the judges. Yet some view them as top five heavyweights of all time. Why? Asking the fans who rate them as top 5 of heavyweights.

No one would pick a fighter that size vs. Tyson Fury, Usyk, or Hrgovic. Not a chance. Same for Klitschko and Lewis.

Simplistic thinking, a specialty of yours? Could Holyfield be competative against Lewis? Could Louis, if he felt it necessary come in heavy? Well, we see that guys in divisions with a strict weight limit manage to lose untold pounds to make weight, But a heavyweight, assuming it is in his best interests, could not pack on twenty, or so, more pounds on? I guess not because since Lewis, human beings have undergone evolutionary changes... Like since we branched off from neanderthals and all... and then around 1970 right? So Louis and those guys could not hold weight right?

What you always fail to recognize is: heavyweights trained to come in light... so they came in light. It was a conscious effort to do so, not a limiting factor. Louis later in his career walked around at over 200.

On your second ridiculous assertion: find any fighter who never got home cooking occasionally from a judge. It is part of the sport, for better or for worse. If it was not Boxing might be more like the UFC regarding champions, I am not opposed to that either, BUT all great fighters occasionally got some break going their way, Louis was not atypical in that regard.