Did Jack Johnson participate in fixed fights?

[Dr. Z]

Consider the following:


1 ) He won 5 fights via disaquifaction ( an extremely high number and lost 1 when he low blowed Jeannette after a lively round one then Johnson went low in round two.

2 ) The Jim Scanlan fight, scheduled for 20 rounds, was halted in round 7 due to fouls and unclean breaks.


3 ) Sandy Ferguson, Ruled a no contest.

Referee McGuigan left the ring in round 5 because Johnson and Ferguson were deemed to be 'faking it "

4. Ferguson. DQ win.

Enraged by Johnson's insulting patter and left-hook to the belly, Ferguson took advantage of a bearhug by Johnson to drive his knee twice into his opponent's groin. Ferguson had taken the first two rounds, round three was even, but Johnson began driving home a wicked left hook to the stomach to take the fifth and sixth, and one or two may have strayed.

5. DQ Loss. Low blow.

According to the Philadelphia Item, Jeannette was winning the fight until he was fouled. Jeanntte had to be taken out of the ring in a stretcher.

6. Burke.

Johnson won the newspaper decision. (Fort Wayne Journal Gazette)Burke was knocked down for 9 counts at least once in every round amid cries of fake![According to Bob Edgren]

7. Kechel. Johnson admits the fight was arranged but the admission came after Ketchel was dead.

8. DQ win. Flynn. Bout halted in round nine, Flynn clearly butted but Johnson was guilty of excessive clinching.

9.Jim Johnson. Darw.

One ringside report said that the spectators loudly protested that the men were not fighting and demanded their money back. Jack Johnson said he injured his left arm in the third round and could not use it, but ringsiders said he used his left often and likely fractured it when both fell to the mat in the tenth round. Post-fight examination revealed a slight fracture of the radial in his left arm. In August it had been widely reported by Joe Woodman that Johnson had agreed to terms to fight Sam Langford in Paris. Weights per La Presse Tale of the Tape: 97kg Jack Johnson, 101kg Jim Johnson. The judging was suspect as two did declare a winner and the third voted for Balling Jim Johnson.

10. Thompson. Johnson low blowed him on his return trip to Havana.

"So bad was the bout that the boxing commissioner, sitting at the ringside, fined each fighter $500 for stalling. In the 10th round the referee left the ring (and replaced by promoter Sam Tolan), while a shower of cushions, pop bottles and other missiles were hurled at the boxers." Tacoma News Tribune. Wire Service report states no official decision was rendered.

11. H Smith.

ref:

George Rivett.

A "colossal burlesque, " was the general opinion of the 5, 000 assembled, with Smith taking the count of nine on several occasions "without apparently being hard hit." Johnson "did not take the fight seriously, other than from the box office end, and his much touted effort to stage a comeback fell by the wayside."

Montreal Gazette







12. Simmons.

The Ring reported that Johnson made a couple of 'voodoo' passes over Brad, who then went down. Both men were barred from ever again appearing in a Kansas ring. Iola Daily Register (KS)

What do you think? There is an awful lot of smoke around Johnson's fights.

[Willow The Wisp]

Tough sport, especially back then. Can't think of much to add.

[mrbig1]

Too high to add anything. it's hard to say what when on back then. Johnson is lying when he said he took a dive vs Willard is all I know.

[travestyny]

A fight at the end of his career was believed to be fixed. I think it was the fight around the time that he had agreed to fight Harry Wills, but the commission wouldn't allow it. I don't think any of the other fights were fixed. None of the fights when he was champ.

[QueensburyRules]

- - JJohnson autobio that he sold to Nat was kept out of print until recently because of the porkies he related.

Easy to accuse a fighter for throwing a fight back then. Now accuse a fighter for PED usage easy enough.

[Ivich]

- - JJohnson autobio that he sold to Nat was kept out of print until recently because of the porkies he related.

Easy to accuse a fighter for throwing a fight back then. Now accuse a fighter for PED usage easy enough.

Johnson sold no autobiography to Fleischer he wrote a two page"confession" that he had taken a dive to Willard,Nat gave him a few bucks for it and put it in a drawer it was never published.
If you contest this name the book? If you are referring to Mes Combats,that was ghost written and thrice translated and has never been out of print in the UK I bought it in Foyles over 30 years ago.

[Ivich]

Consider the following:


1 ) He won 5 fights via disaquifaction ( an extremely high number and lost 1 when he low blowed Jeannette after a lively round one then Johnson went low in round two.

2 ) The Jim Scanlan fight, scheduled for 20 rounds, was halted in round 7 due to fouls and unclean breaks.


3 ) Sandy Ferguson, Ruled a no contest.

Referee McGuigan left the ring in round 5 because Johnson and Ferguson were deemed to be 'faking it "

4. Ferguson. DQ win.

Enraged by Johnson's insulting patter and left-hook to the belly, Ferguson took advantage of a bearhug by Johnson to drive his knee twice into his opponent's groin. Ferguson had taken the first two rounds, round three was even, but Johnson began driving home a wicked left hook to the stomach to take the fifth and sixth, and one or two may have strayed.

5. DQ Loss. Low blow.

According to the Philadelphia Item, Jeannette was winning the fight until he was fouled. Jeanntte had to be taken out of the ring in a stretcher.

6. Burke.

Johnson won the newspaper decision. (Fort Wayne Journal Gazette)Burke was knocked down for 9 counts at least once in every round amid cries of fake![According to Bob Edgren]

7. Kechel. Johnson admits the fight was arranged but the admission came after Ketchel was dead.

8. DQ win. Flynn. Bout halted in round nine, Flynn clearly butted but Johnson was guilty of excessive clinching.

9.Jim Johnson. Darw.

One ringside report said that the spectators loudly protested that the men were not fighting and demanded their money back. Jack Johnson said he injured his left arm in the third round and could not use it, but ringsiders said he used his left often and likely fractured it when both fell to the mat in the tenth round. Post-fight examination revealed a slight fracture of the radial in his left arm. In August it had been widely reported by Joe Woodman that Johnson had agreed to terms to fight Sam Langford in Paris. Weights per La Presse Tale of the Tape: 97kg Jack Johnson, 101kg Jim Johnson. The judging was suspect as two did declare a winner and the third voted for Balling Jim Johnson.

10. Thompson. Johnson low blowed him on his return trip to Havana.

"So bad was the bout that the boxing commissioner, sitting at the ringside, fined each fighter $500 for stalling. In the 10th round the referee left the ring (and replaced by promoter Sam Tolan), while a shower of cushions, pop bottles and other missiles were hurled at the boxers." Tacoma News Tribune. Wire Service report states no official decision was rendered.

11. H Smith.

ref:

George Rivett.

A "colossal burlesque, " was the general opinion of the 5, 000 assembled, with Smith taking the count of nine on several occasions "without apparently being hard hit." Johnson "did not take the fight seriously, other than from the box office end, and his much touted effort to stage a comeback fell by the wayside."

Montreal Gazette







12. Simmons.

The Ring reported that Johnson made a couple of 'voodoo' passes over Brad, who then went down. Both men were barred from ever again appearing in a Kansas ring. Iola Daily Register (KS)

What do you think? There is an awful lot of smoke around Johnson's fights.

More Johnson character assassination . LOL

[QueensburyRules]

- - The Brad Simmons Voodoo Theater always struck me an an entertaining exhibition. Simmons gave JJohnson some hell in previous fights as I recall.

Jack Dempsey was supposed to have thrown the first Fireman Flynn bout, his only KO loss and a first round at that. Only time he was buzzed that we know of is the Firpo Fireworks.

Some say McCall threw the Lewie rematch by refusing to punch and squallin' like a kicked schoolgrrl, but he had been taken out of drug rehab 24 hours before this fight, so more likely a mental/drug addition breakdown.

Clay/Liston fight clearly thrown.

The rematch was just JJWalcott dereliction in allowing Ali to fight with him instead of DQing him after he tried to kick the downed Liston in the noggin. Liston wrongly accused of throwing it because of the off balance moving backwards right hand Ali threw couldn't dent a flea. Liston had just missed a sweeping left hook and left crouching off balance when it landed, easy enough to see in slomo.

[Ivich]

Consider the following:


1 ) He won 5 fights via disaquifaction ( an extremely high number and lost 1 when he low blowed Jeannette after a lively round one then Johnson went low in round two.

2 ) The Jim Scanlan fight, scheduled for 20 rounds, was halted in round 7 due to fouls and unclean breaks.


3 ) Sandy Ferguson, Ruled a no contest.

Referee McGuigan left the ring in round 5 because Johnson and Ferguson were deemed to be 'faking it "

4. Ferguson. DQ win.

Enraged by Johnson's insulting patter and left-hook to the belly, Ferguson took advantage of a bearhug by Johnson to drive his knee twice into his opponent's groin. Ferguson had taken the first two rounds, round three was even, but Johnson began driving home a wicked left hook to the stomach to take the fifth and sixth, and one or two may have strayed.

5. DQ Loss. Low blow.

According to the Philadelphia Item, Jeannette was winning the fight until he was fouled. Jeanntte had to be taken out of the ring in a stretcher.

6. Burke.

Johnson won the newspaper decision. (Fort Wayne Journal Gazette)Burke was knocked down for 9 counts at least once in every round amid cries of fake![According to Bob Edgren]

7. Kechel. Johnson admits the fight was arranged but the admission came after Ketchel was dead.

8. DQ win. Flynn. Bout halted in round nine, Flynn clearly butted but Johnson was guilty of excessive clinching.

9.Jim Johnson. Darw.

One ringside report said that the spectators loudly protested that the men were not fighting and demanded their money back. Jack Johnson said he injured his left arm in the third round and could not use it, but ringsiders said he used his left often and likely fractured it when both fell to the mat in the tenth round. Post-fight examination revealed a slight fracture of the radial in his left arm. In August it had been widely reported by Joe Woodman that Johnson had agreed to terms to fight Sam Langford in Paris. Weights per La Presse Tale of the Tape: 97kg Jack Johnson, 101kg Jim Johnson. The judging was suspect as two did declare a winner and the third voted for Balling Jim Johnson.

10. Thompson. Johnson low blowed him on his return trip to Havana.

"So bad was the bout that the boxing commissioner, sitting at the ringside, fined each fighter $500 for stalling. In the 10th round the referee left the ring (and replaced by promoter Sam Tolan), while a shower of cushions, pop bottles and other missiles were hurled at the boxers." Tacoma News Tribune. Wire Service report states no official decision was rendered.

11. H Smith.

ref:

George Rivett.

A "colossal burlesque, " was the general opinion of the 5, 000 assembled, with Smith taking the count of nine on several occasions "without apparently being hard hit." Johnson ";did not take the fight seriously, other than from the box office end, and his much touted effort to stage a comeback fell by the wayside."

Montreal Gazette







12. Simmons.

The Ring reported that Johnson made a couple of 'voodoo' passes over Brad, who then went down. Both men were barred from ever again appearing in a Kansas ring. Iola Daily Register (KS)

What do you think? There is an awful lot of smoke around Johnson's fights.

Ferguson never won a fight against Johnson.

In their feb1904 Both Ferguson and Johnson were last minute subs brought in to save the show.
In the Johnson v Battling Jim fight Johnson broke his arm ,that tends to affect your performance in a boxing match!lol Against Simmons Johnson was 52 years old ,a month off of 53,scuffling for a few bucks. There are plenty of fighters who have engaged in fights that were not kosher including greats like Harry Wills.Sam McVey and Sam Langford I will expand on this when I came back from taking my Wife shopping .Everyone who reads your posts knows why you have made this thread ,I'll attend to it later.

[Ivich]

Consider the following:


1 ) He won 5 fights via disaquifaction ( an extremely high number and lost 1 when he low blowed Jeannette after a lively round one then Johnson went low in round two.

2 ) The Jim Scanlan fight, scheduled for 20 rounds, was halted in round 7 due to fouls and unclean breaks.


3 ) Sandy Ferguson, Ruled a no contest.

Referee McGuigan left the ring in round 5 because Johnson and Ferguson were deemed to be 'faking it "

4. Ferguson. DQ win.

Enraged by Johnson's insulting patter and left-hook to the belly, Ferguson took advantage of a bearhug by Johnson to drive his knee twice into his opponent's groin. Ferguson had taken the first two rounds, round three was even, but Johnson began driving home a wicked left hook to the stomach to take the fifth and sixth, and one or two may have strayed.

5. DQ Loss. Low blow.

According to the Philadelphia Item, Jeannette was winning the fight until he was fouled. Jeanntte had to be taken out of the ring in a stretcher.

6. Burke.

Johnson won the newspaper decision. (Fort Wayne Journal Gazette)Burke was knocked down for 9 counts at least once in every round amid cries of fake![According to Bob Edgren]

7. Kechel. Johnson admits the fight was arranged but the admission came after Ketchel was dead.

8. DQ win. Flynn. Bout halted in round nine, Flynn clearly butted but Johnson was guilty of excessive clinching.

9.Jim Johnson. Darw.

One ringside report said that the spectators loudly protested that the men were not fighting and demanded their money back. Jack Johnson said he injured his left arm in the third round and could not use it, but ringsiders said he used his left often and likely fractured it when both fell to the mat in the tenth round. Post-fight examination revealed a slight fracture of the radial in his left arm. In August it had been widely reported by Joe Woodman that Johnson had agreed to terms to fight Sam Langford in Paris. Weights per La Presse Tale of the Tape: 97kg Jack Johnson, 101kg Jim Johnson. The judging was suspect as two did declare a winner and the third voted for Balling Jim Johnson.

10. Thompson. Johnson low blowed him on his return trip to Havana.

"So bad was the bout that the boxing commissioner, sitting at the ringside, fined each fighter $500 for stalling. In the 10th round the referee left the ring (and replaced by promoter Sam Tolan), while a shower of cushions, pop bottles and other missiles were hurled at the boxers." Tacoma News Tribune. Wire Service report states no official decision was rendered.

11. H Smith.

ref:

George Rivett.

A "colossal burlesque, " was the general opinion of the 5, 000 assembled, with Smith taking the count of nine on several occasions "without apparently being hard hit." Johnson "did not take the fight seriously, other than from the box office end, and his much touted effort to stage a comeback fell by the wayside."

Montreal Gazette







12. Simmons.

The Ring reported that Johnson made a couple of 'voodoo' passes over Brad, who then went down. Both men were barred from ever again appearing in a Kansas ring. Iola Daily Register (KS)

What do you think? There is an awful lot of smoke around Johnson's fights.

No 2. I've never read in any book, or on any forum that there was ever a suggestion that the Scanlon fight was fixed.If you are saying otherwise, now is the time to produce your proof!

No 3, Both Johnson and Ferguson were last minute substitutes for others its very possible given Johnson always dominated Sandy,that Johnson agreed to let him stay .Ferguson sometimes turned up," under the influence for fights" ,given that he was a late sub ,perhaps he was incapable of giving a decent showing on that night?
No 4. Similarly why do you say the Ferguson fight was fixed Johnson was always Sandy's Boss?
Ferguson kneed Johnson in the groin and was chucked out for it.

Where is the proof that the fight was pre-arranged?

No 5. The Jeannette fight here is the fight report.
JOHNSON BEATS JEANETTE
Negro Champion, However, Was Disqualified on an Alleged Foul After outclassing Joe Jeanette for a round and a half, Jack Johnson, The Negro Heavyweight Champion of the World, lost the bout at the National Athletic Club last night on an alleged foul. Jeanette, after being thumped in lively fashion in the first round, assumed a crouching pose in the second round. He undertook to run in and clinch, ducking a vicious left hand swing. Johnson ripped a right hand hook up for Jeanette's jaw. The latter dropped to the floor, writhing in apparent agony. He claimed to have been struck a foul blow. He was removed to the dressing room and the club physician substantiated his claim. Johnson was promptly disqualified. Jeanette professed to be in great pain and lay in his dressing room in apparent agony. It is understood that the police proposed to keep Johnson, Jeanette and the club official under surveillance.
Philadelphia Public Ledger
Notice the words alleged,claimed.and professed.? BTW Jeannette was not carried out on a stretcher
Given.that Johnson was winning the fight, and in any case it was only the 2nd round ,what incentive would he have to foul Jeannette? NB That is the only time Johnson was ever DSQ'd.!

No 6.Johnson knocked Burke down in every round. Burke probably realised he was overmatched and decided not to put himself in harms way.How is that Johnson's fault? What evidence can you show us that the fight was fixed before it started?

No 7.The story goes that Johnson reached an agreement with Willus Britt ,Ketchels manager to take it easy on Ketchel and permit him to make a showing and give the customers their money's worth.Ketchel was told nothing of this arrangement and went out there swinging for the fences
SinceJohnson was on a percentage of the film rights this was obviously to Johnson's benefit too , a longer fight with some drama in it would obviously be more marketable a proposition than a one sided blow out would be.The film shows Johnson holding Ketchel up and grabbing him when he starts to fall,in short he carried him.Johnson told his friends and family to bet in him winning inside 14 rds.he knew he could put Stanley away whenever he went to work on him.

No 8 Johnson dominated Flynn and laughed at his crude head butting .It's all on film.

Johnson had previously ko'd Flynn in a one sided fight what possible motive would he have to pre-arrange a fixed fight with Flynn,who was clearly not in his class.The referee stated that, in his opinion Flynn was so badly outclassed he resorted to fouling to get himself dsq'd to save himself from more punishment.The referee also disagreed with your," interpretation," of the fight.

No 9Johnson broke his arm in the 3rd round against Battling Jim after winning the 1st 3 rds and was observed to be fighting one handed afterwards,he got through the next 7 rds and received a draw.Where is the evidence of a fixed fight there? No 10 45 years old Johnson and Jack Thompson went through the motions and were fined for stalling.That is self evident

No 10 There is no evidence that Johnson colluded with Porky Flynn to fix this fight.



Now for some others.
Harry Wills v Jack Thompson1921 fixed ,

Harry Wills v Sam McVey 1920 fixed, both men banned in Philadelphia.NC
Harry Wills vJack Thompson 1920 fixed both purses withheld.NC
Harry Wills v Sam Langford 1917 fixed both men fined for stalling.NC

Sam Langford v Jack Thompson 1919 fixed both men fined for stalling.NC

Sam Langford v Porky Flynn 1917 fixed both men stalling NC

Jim Braddock v Maxie Rosenbloom 1931 fixed both men's purses with held NC

Jim Braddock v Willie Daly 1936 fixed both men slung out for not trying.NC

Queensbury Rules has rightly put his finger on the Ali Liston fights.does that mean Ali was in collusion with Liston to fix the results Obviously not! Get the point?