Joe Frazier vs Vitali Klitschko

[mickey malone]

His chin was tried,His chin was tested and his chin failed,Joe fraziers supporters don't wish to admit it but the man had a suspect chin.Since when has a glass jaw prohibited success in the ring? Many champions have given us lol moments when knocked down by the faintest of punches



:bukkake:




I'm still waiting for such proof fruitcake







It's well documented how much futch felt for frazier,He was by far his most favourite pupil.He would never have frazier disgrace himself by quitting infront of the whole world,futch worked on the fly and told frazier to follow his lead and it lead to frazier looking like the warrior he never was

There are somethings you can't learn through internet forums and books

The proof is in your demeanor Nutcrumpet.. Would you & you're shirt lifting accomplice like to start a thread proving otherwise? I Don't think so, so Don't tempt me...

[Dynamite Kid]

His chin was tried,His chin was tested and his chin failed,Joe fraziers supporters don't wish to admit it but the man had a suspect chin.Since when has a glass jaw prohibited success in the ring? Many champions have given us lol moments when knocked down by the faintest of punches



:bukkake:




I'm still waiting for such proof fruitcake







It's well documented how much futch felt for frazier,He was by far his most favourite pupil.He would never have frazier disgrace himself by quitting infront of the whole world,futch worked on the fly and told frazier to follow his lead and it lead to frazier looking like the warrior he never was

There are somethings you can't learn through internet forums and books

Depends how you define glass chin, glass chin is a fighter that does not have the ability to recover............Junior Jones, but a fighter who goes down but gets up and gathers himself to win fights cant be considered to have a glass jaw.

JMM goes down on a regular basis but he still gets upto win fights, or at least make them competitive.

Frazier was stopped by his corner and it was Ali who was ready to quit apparently.

[Marlin26]

well theres a few things we have to take into consideration, Fraziers lighting fast ability to duck punched (as shown in Ali - Frazier 1) if Frazier could dodge Ali's punches then he should have no problem with the slower Vitali.

But Vitali has that extreme height advantage, sure frazier fought many taller fighters but non quite as tall as vitali. if Frazier could get on the inside then i could see Vitali being dropped in the mid rounds considering frazier kept up his non stop constant pace and brutal body attack. I could see Vitali's jaw eventually dropping and leaving him wide open for Fraziers trademark left hook.

We also have to take into the fact that Vitali is used to going 12 rounds (mandatory WBC rules) instead of Fraziers time when they went 15 rounds. So i can see Frazier being more conditioned for the 12 round fight. Which may mean he could up his pace even more, and to think of that i could see Frazier being unstoppable.

It must also be taken into fact that Vitali has never fought someone with such good condition like joe had, to many present day heavyweights throw like 4 punches then slow dance for the rest of the round. Frazier is one of those fighters that never stops coming forward and never stops punching (not including the foreman fight)

But! if Vitali was able to keep Frazier on the outside and pepper him with lefts and rights like there going out of style, i could see Frazier being stopped or KO'd early.

Frazier also had a tendancy to swell like a beast, if Vitali could land even a decent amount of punches on Frazier then i could see it being stopped late.

Vitali also has power with the right hand and if it was to land cleanly enough i could see Frazier being hurt badly and possibly going down in early rounds.

The final thing to consider is Fraziers heart, something we have not seen tested in Vitali yet. Frazier is the type of man that would take a beating and ask for more. Againts the hardest hitting heavyweight ever, george foreman: frazier was dropped 6 times and everytime he forced himself to his feet, the ref had to stop the fight to ensure that joe would not kill himself. Unless Vitali puts Frazier clean out (which i dont think has ever been done) then i could see Frazier standing up and making a comeback in later rounds

Either way it depends on how the fight goes down, if Vitali can move and stay on the outside or if Frazier can get on the inside: Thats what determines the outcome of this fight

[princemanspoper]

There is a huge difference in a good chin and good recovery.Someone like Ken norton didn't have have as bad as chin as is claimed,his recovery was just incredibly slow,Marquez has a poor chin but excellent recovery.Someone like Macro Antonio barrera has neither

frazier doesn't have a glass chin(jaw) but he never had a particularly good one either.I guess you can give him credit for ali failing to knock him down over the course of 41 rounds once but only occasionaly during his career did ali ever throw that big right hand he was capable of throwing such as in the eleventh round against ron lyle,the second round against joe frazier of their second fight(could he have finished him off? ),and the sixth round against norton off their second fight overall ali was not a puncher in the slightest

frazier fought the first true big puncher of his career and not only went down,He went down over and over and over again in a embarrassing display.Many of foremans shots never really landed clean either

The story of frazier wanting to fight on and ali begging his corner to quit is used to romanticize the ali-frazier feud just as how we purposely forget how the second fight turned out is used to romanticize their feud.We wish to remember two warriors fighting to the death,we wish to remember ali apparently collapsed in the middle of the ring although in truth he was merely sat on his stool having his gloves cut off.boxing loves drama and it loves the what if's,but in truth most is fabrication just like all boxing folklore

[Dynamite Kid]

There is a huge difference in a good chin and good recovery.Someone like Ken norton didn't have have as bad as chin as is claimed,his recovery was just incredibly slow,Marquez has a poor chin but excellent recovery.Someone like Macro Antonio barrera has neither

frazier doesn't have a glass chin(jaw) but he never had a particularly good one either.I guess you can give him credit for ali failing to knock him down over the course of 41 rounds once but only occasionaly during his career did ali ever throw that big right hand he was capable of throwing such as in the eleventh round against ron lyle,the second round against joe frazier of their second fight(could he have finished him off? ),and the sixth round against norton off their second fight overall ali was not a puncher in the slightest

frazier fought the first true big puncher of his career and not only went down,He went down over and over and over again in a embarrassing display.Many of foremans shots never really landed clean either

The story of frazier wanting to fight on and ali begging his corner to quit is used to romanticize the ali-frazier feud just as how we purposely forget how the second fight turned out is used to romanticize their feud.We wish to remember two warriors fighting to the death,we wish to remember ali apparently collapsed in the middle of the ring although in truth he was merely sat on his stool having his gloves cut off.boxing loves drama and it loves the what if's,but in truth most is fabrication just like all boxing folklore

frazier doesn't have a glass chin(jaw)

That is all i needed to know.

[TheGreatA]

It's well documented how much futch felt for frazier,He was by far his most favourite pupil.He would never have frazier disgrace himself by quitting infront of the whole world,futch worked on the fly and told frazier to follow his lead and it lead to frazier looking like the warrior he never was

There are somethings you can't learn through internet forums and books

And how would you know that? It's all your speculation.

Did Frazier ever show any quit in any of his fights?

In my view both Frazier and Futch knew it would be hazardous to take any more punishment. But Frazier was willing to go on for as long as he could, Futch simply did his job and called the fight off.

frazier doesn't have a glass chin(jaw) but he never had a particularly good one either.I guess you can give him credit for ali failing to knock him down over the course of 41 rounds once but only occasionaly during his career did ali ever throw that big right hand he was capable of throwing such as in the eleventh round against ron lyle,the second round against joe frazier of their second fight(could he have finished him off? ),and the sixth round against norton off their second fight overall ali was not a puncher in the slightest

frazier fought the first true big puncher of his career and not only went down,He went down over and over and over again in a embarrassing display.Many of foremans shots never really landed clean either

The story of frazier wanting to fight on and ali begging his corner to quit is used to romanticize the ali-frazier feud just as how we purposely forget how the second fight turned out is used to romanticize their feud.We wish to remember two warriors fighting to the death,we wish to remember ali apparently collapsed in the middle of the ring although in truth he was merely sat on his stool having his gloves cut off.boxing loves drama and it loves the what if's,but in truth most is fabrication just like all boxing folklore

Ali set his feet to throw bombs in the first couple of rounds of the first fight. Those were some of the most powerful punches I've ever seen him throw and Joe took them. In the 9th he landed a couple of left hooks the kind that had Oscar Bonavena down but they didn't slow Frazier down the slightest.

It's been said that Ali had doubts whether he could go on in the 10th round but decided to fight on. He closed Frazier's eye and threw everything he had at him in rounds 13 and 14.

I certainly think he would have come out for the 15th, especially because he had Dundee on his corner who would push him out if Ali even had any thoughts about quitting (just like in the first Liston fight).

Ali did fall down after the fight, but not in the dramatic fashion that is made out to be. Neither did he sit on his stool waiting to have his gloves cut off. He went on a knee to get some rest after a brutal fight and then held an interview very coherently.

[Dynamite Kid]

And how would you know that? It's all your speculation.

Did Frazier ever show any quit in any of his fights?

In my view both Frazier and Futch knew it would be hazardous to take any more punishment. But Frazier was willing to go on for as long as he could, Futch simply did his job and called the fight off.



Ali set his feet to throw bombs in the first couple of rounds of the first fight. Those were some of the most powerful punches I've ever seen him throw and Joe took them. In the 9th he landed a couple of left hooks the kind that had Oscar Bonavena down but they didn't slow Frazier down the slightest.

It's been said that Ali had doubts whether he could go on in the 10th round but decided to fight on. He closed Frazier's eye and threw everything he had at him in rounds 13 and 14.

I certainly think he would have come out for the 15th, especially because he had Dundee on his corner who would push him out if Ali even had any thoughts about quitting (just like in the first Liston fight).

Ali did fall down after the fight, but not in the dramatic fashion that is made out to be. Neither did he sit on his stool waiting to have his gloves cut off. He went on a knee to get some rest after a brutal fight and then held an interview very coherently.

Great post.

[Sugarj]

Hi Sonnybox, thats a good list of big guys:

No1 Valuev - 7ft 1ins
No2 Terrell - 6ft 7ins
No3 Vitali - 6ft 7ins
No4 Willard - 6ft 7ins
No5 Carnera - 6ft 6ins
No6 Bowe - 6ft 6ins
No7 Bonecrusher 6ft 5ins
No8 Foreman - 6ft 5ins
No9 Lewis 6ft 5ins
No10 Tucker 6ft 5ins

Out of the above I rate Vitali, Bowe, Foreman and Lewis. They have all shown ATG qualities in my book. They are all murderous punchers with excellent records. Some have great boxing skills, others have speed, others have great chins.

I promise I will never pick any of the others on your list over a peak Frazier in a head to head. Ha ha!

I'm a keen boxing historian with a huge fight film collection. My assessments in head to head matches are based on the fights I have seen (often repeatedly!). I dont just pick the bigger guy in any given matchup.

Ali and Holmes are my heavyweight 1 & 2 ATG. Not the biggest guys or the hardest punchers by a long stretch.

[Caesar]

i am also a big frazier fan, but this fight would wlad win, just because of his range and anything else