IMO he would have beaten wills think he was made for dempsy
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Nice info on the no1 and no2 contenders Don. But the results and the fact that their names dont spring to my geeky mind says much for their competence or the health of the division. If it were the 'Golden age' fighters would surely be better matched. Thats why the late 1980s isn't classed as a golden age, because Tyson just about walked through everyone!
As for the Johnson vs Willard fight, have you ever watched it? I have, and Jess was clearly outboxed by an old (37) Johnson. Willard landed a fine right hand in something like the 26th round in the Cuban heat!
Now Johnson wasn't a destroyer like Dempsey, he could punch but many of his fights went into the late rounds. He liked to clinch, coast and showboat, so comparing an old Johnson to a young hungry Dempsey is not a viable comparison.
Nor is comparing the Willard that beat Johnson in 1915 to the inactive, podgy guy that showed up to defend against Dempsey in 1919! Dempsey never damaged anybody quite like he damaged Willard ever again did he? Smashed eye sockets!!! Willard always maintained that Dempsey had a tool that was used to tighten ring ropes packed inside his glove. There were rumours of plaster of Paris in Dempsey's gloves too. I'd like to think these rumours are not true but he didn't get Gibbons or Brennan in anything like that state!Comment
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I wouldn't call Dempsey the greatest either though, I'd say he's top ten but not top three.Originally posted by TheGreatA View Post
I just think he gets a lot of stick because he never defended against a black fighter, which wasn't his fault since he was willing to defend against Wills but the powers that be wouldn't have it.
Shame Jack Johnson never seems to get called on his open drawing of the colour line having never defended against a black fighter. On winning the title "I'm not going to be fighting any of those colored chaps anymore"Comment
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Johnson was simply after the cash (much more of this from defending against a white guy!). No one was baying for Johnson to defend against the leading black fighters of the day (he'd beaten them all for a pittance anyway!), fans just wanted him to be whupped by a white boy!
Johnson had got his title shot the hard way (he chased Tommy Burns all over the world!), as a youth he engaged in Battle Royales (where a bunch of black men, sometimes blindfolded were jammed in a ring........expected to fight their kinfolk until only one was left standing. While white men flipped coins in for the eventual winner to collect). Dehumanising acts like this no doubt shaped Johnson into a guy that no doubt didn't want to fight black men once he didn't have to.Comment
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I think Dempsey was great, but back then, my grandmother wasn't even planned yet :P so I can't say for sure. What I do know is that he worked his way up a tall ladder and was probably one of the greatest entertainers of all times. Jack Dempsey/Gene Tunney II had more than 100 000 spectaters and an estimated 60 000 000 people tuned in over the radio.
Ps. interesting fact: Johnson died after being denied at a diner for being black. He sped of and crashed into a pole. People said: "Today Jack Johnson crossed his last white line". Hope all of you get the world play. That breaks my heart. Atleast he's remembered positively now.Comment
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almost all the great boxing historians also say Dempsey was the greatest of all times, Jack Sharkey who passed away in 1996 said, Dempsey would have beaten Ali, Louis, Tyson and every other claiment to the heavyweight title... Tyson who himself has an incredible knowledge of boxing history also claims Dempsey was the greatest ever.Originally posted by Kinetic Linking View PostComment
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
In the two fights with Tunney (10 rounds each), Dempsey only won 1 of the 20 rounds....
But anyway. What I like about him is he's got that something few fighters have...that X-factor...Ali was big, tall and fast. Tyson is brutal and tough. Braddock had alot to fight for...but Dempsey was just simply damn good. You can't REALLY tell why...he just is. For some reason he can kick your @$$ and you can't kick his.Comment
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Johnson sure did get a lot of mileage out of that line, but it wasn't true. Nor is it true that there was no interest in seeing Johnson defend his title against another black fighter. There are numerous well-documented big money offers for Johnson to fight any of Langford, Jeannette and McVea, usually in Britain, France or Australia. Hugh McIntosh made Johnson a series of offers worth from $30,000 to $100,000 - comparable to what he made against Jeffries and Willard - for him to face them in Australia and he turned them all down.Originally posted by Sugarj View Post
The National Sporting Club in London loaned him the money to chase Burns to Australia, on condition that if he won he would make his first defence against Langford, which he reneged on. There were literally dozens of similar such offers for Johnson to meet his black peers, and he accepted not one of them. Nor did the colour line and apparent lack of money in black vs black title fights didn't stop him defending against the far less dangerous Battling Jim Johnson...Comment
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