10 Greatest Light Heavyweights

[CCobra]

On what do you base your no. 1 choice?

Charles might have had the better of Archie Moore head-to-head, but as for accomplishments in the division I would rate Moore on top and I probably wouldn't even have Charles in my top 5.

My basis for number 1 is the resume Charles has at 175. I don't consider championship belts as the be all and end all of a champions reign otherwise I'd have Jones Jr in my top 10.

Charles accomplished a lot in terms of opposition as a 175lber. He beat (I'm only counting the wins at 175lbs and not above) Bivins (x3) Moore (x3), Fitzpatrick (x2), Marshall (x2), Ray, Oakland Billy Smith (x2), Maxim (x2). That resume is as good (if not better) then any LHW in the history of the sport. Even his resume as a Middleweight is impressive due to the fact he holds two victories over one of the greatest uncrowned champions in Charley Burley.

It's a good list otherwise but why would you have Yolande Pompey as number 7? Is that a mistake?

That was actually a mistake. I was narrowing down my top 15 list and I managed to repaste Pompey in. My actual number choice for number 7 is Harold Johnson (Michael Moorer is sitting on the edges of the top 10) and I'll edit that in a little while.

Charles was a great light heavyweight in my opinion even though he never won the title (then again he was never given a shot either).

Aside from Moore, he had wins over Joey Maxim, Lloyd Marshall and Jimmy Bivins at light heavyweight. He looks brilliant on film in the rematch against Marshall, not so much against Bivins.

I do rate Moore over Charles at light heavyweight because of his amazing longevity. I also feel that he would have beaten Charles in the mid 50's at HW but that's just me.

Perhaps he would have beaten Charles at Heavyweight but we don't know what Charles could have accomplished in the 3 years he spent in the military. Moore had three chances to beat Charles at both fighters prime weights and failed to do so.

I think you may be a bit off here Bat. Charles not even top 5? Charles resume of wins at 175 could be the best ever. Charles could of accomplished alot more if he had been given his chance at the Title.

Many historians rank him as the best light heavyweight in history. Despite the fact that he was never able to gain a shot at the world light heavyweight title.

Ezzard Charles defeated every light heavyweight he faced in an era of great fighters. More amazingly, from 1946 until mid-1951, Charles participated in 40 bouts, and would only lose once. Unable to secure a title shot as a light heavyweight.

Charles defeated Moore 3 times, he was virtually the only fighter Moore cound't defeat at 175. Aswell as beating Moore x3 times at 175, he also defeated Lloyd Marshallx2 , Oakland Billy Smithx2, Jimmy Bivinsx3, Elmer Ray, and Joey Maxim.

In my personal opinion Charles ranks as number ##1 LHW of all time, but I have no arugment if you have Archie Moorie number 1, but not even to have Charles in your top 5 LHW's of all time, is shocking to say the least. Especailly as he beat you number #1 choice 3 times at LHW in his peak.

I've seen some bad lists in my time. Some lists ranking Jones Jr as number 1 but failing to give Charles even a mention as he doesn't even make the top 10 of some peoples. It's shocking to think that a fighter as skilled as Charles and with a resume like Charles can't make a top 10.

[Southpaw16BF]

I've seen some bad lists in my time. Some lists ranking Jones Jr as number 1 but failing to give Charles even a mention as he doesn't even make the top 10 of some peoples. It's shocking to think that a fighter as skilled as Charles and with a resume like Charles can't make a top 10.

I'am shocked that someone wound't even have Charles is there top 5, but to not have him in the top 10 LHW's of all time is just bogus, and the person who write the list, must not no nothing about boxing.

[TheGreatA]

That was actually a mistake. I was narrowing down my top 15 list and I managed to repaste Pompey in. My actual number choice for number 7 is Harold Johnson (Michael Moorer is sitting on the edges of the top 10) and I'll edit that in a little while.

Harold Johnson is a great pick. I rate him very highly.

He had a respectable record at heavyweight too. Johnson had actually signed to fight a young, raw Sonny Liston in 1956 before injuring his shoulder.

Harold Johnson may have beaten Liston at that point. Imagine how good that win would've looked on his resume with Liston going onto become the fighter he was.

The fight was again about to be made in the 60's when Johnson was older but he would have probably been destroyed by Liston at that point.

Perhaps he would have beaten Charles at Heavyweight but we don't know what Charles could have accomplished in the 3 years he spent in the military. Moore had three chances to beat Charles at both fighters prime weights and failed to do so.

Can't take anything away from Charles, he did win all their meetings, but I feel that their head-to-head results are a bit deceiving, especially because there happens to be no film of these fights. Charles did not outclass Moore in my opinion, despite beating him three times.

The second fight was a close majority decision, the third fight was a back-and-forth contest which seemed to be going Moore's way until Charles came back to KO Moore after being hurt.

I feel that Moore got better as he got older and was at his best during the early 1950's. Charles on the other hand did not age as well and was already used up by his mid 30's.

I believe Charles spent time in the military during 1943-1945. I think it was for the best though since he came back bigger and better, avenging his earlier losses to Marshall and Bivins.

[BattlingNelson]

I think you may be a bit off here Bat. Charles not even top 5? Charles resume of wins at 175 could be the best ever. Charles could of accomplished alot more if he had been given his chance at the Title.

Many historians rank him as the best light heavyweight in history. Despite the fact that he was never able to gain a shot at the world light heavyweight title.

Ezzard Charles defeated every light heavyweight he faced in an era of great fighters. More amazingly, from 1946 until mid-1951, Charles participated in 40 bouts, and would only lose once. Unable to secure a title shot as a light heavyweight.

Charles defeated Moore 3 times, he was virtually the only fighter Moore cound't defeat at 175. Aswell as beating Moore x3 times at 175, he also defeated Lloyd Marshallx2 , Oakland Billy Smithx2, Jimmy Bivinsx3, Elmer Ray, and Joey Maxim.

In my personal opinion Charles ranks as number ##1 LHW of all time, but I have no arugment if you have Archie Moorie number 1, but not even to have Charles in your top 5 LHW's of all time, is shocking to say the least. Especailly as he beat you number #1 choice 3 times at LHW in his peak.

Thanks for the info. I'm definetely no expert on LHW history. I did say 'probably' not top 5 as you can see.

You (and others) have given some excellent info on Charles accomplishments at LHW so I can see why you guys rate him so high. I'm amazed that Charles didn't get a titleshot despite racking up so many wins against excellent opposition.

[CCobra]

I'am shocked that someone wound't even have Charles is there top 5, but to not have him in the top 10 LHW's of all time is just bogus, and the person who write the list, must not no nothing about boxing.

The culprit for that poor list is the Ring ****zine list of 1975.

The Ring ****zine Staff (1975)
1. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
2. Archie Moore
3. Jack Dillon
4. Bob Foster
5. Sam Langford
6. Tommy Loughran
7. Paul Berlenbach
8. Billy Conn
9. Kid McCoy
10. Jack Delaney

It just shows how lists change over the years. Their are very few people who will remember the likes of Kid McCoy and Jack Delaney so their name fades out and they don't get he recognition that they perhaps deserve. It's why the likes of Jones Jr are making peoples lists at number 1.

[CCobra]

Harold Johnson is a great pick. I rate him very highly.

He had a respectable record at heavyweight too. Johnson had actually signed to fight a young, raw Sonny Liston in 1956 before injuring his shoulder.

Johnson is often overlooked, which is a big shame. He was a great talent though.

Harold Johnson may have beaten Liston at that point. Imagine how good that win would've looked on his resume with Liston going onto become the fighter he was.

The fight was again about to be made in the 60's when Johnson was older but he would have probably been destroyed by Liston at that point.

Liston would have pasted an older version of Johnson but I think that Johnson may well have beaten a green Liston.

Can't take anything away from Charles, he did win all their meetings, but I feel that their head-to-head results are a bit deceiving, especially because there happens to be no film of these fights. Charles did not outclass Moore in my opinion, despite beating him three times.

The second fight was a close majority decision, the third fight was a back-and-forth contest which seemed to be going Moore's way until Charles came back to KO Moore after being hurt.

I believe Charles spent time in the military during 1943-1945. I think it was for the best though since he came back bigger and better, avenging his earlier losses to Marshall and Bivins.

The lack of film is really poor. They have footage from the late 1800s even yet they can't provide footage for a fight such as Moore/Charles. Deceiving they may be and we'll never know if the second fight was controversial scoring or not due to the fact that footage isn't available.

I think that coming back from the military may have made Charles a better fighter but we'll never know because of the unfortunate passing of Sam Baroudi. As they say, that fight took the venom from the Cobra and he was never the same again. They said he held back to much post-Baroudi.

[TheGreatA]

The culprit for that poor list is the Ring ****zine list of 1975.

The Ring ****zine Staff (1975)
1. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
2. Archie Moore
3. Jack Dillon
4. Bob Foster
5. Sam Langford
6. Tommy Loughran
7. Paul Berlenbach
8. Billy Conn
9. Kid McCoy
10. Jack Delaney

It just shows how lists change over the years. Their are very few people who will remember the likes of Kid McCoy and Jack Delaney so their name fades out and they don't get he recognition that they perhaps deserve. It's why the likes of Jones Jr are making peoples lists at number 1.

There's some film of Jack Delaney and he looks like a very modern fighter who would probably be more appreciated if these films were made available for the general public.

I might try to get film of Delaney uploaded on youtube. Reminds me of Tunney, Conn and Loughran.

[Southpaw16BF]

The culprit for that poor list is the Ring ****zine list of 1975.

The Ring ****zine Staff (1975)
1. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
2. Archie Moore
3. Jack Dillon
4. Bob Foster
5. Sam Langford
6. Tommy Loughran
7. Paul Berlenbach
8. Billy Conn
9. Kid McCoy
10. Jack Delaney

It just shows how lists change over the years. Their are very few people who will remember the likes of Kid McCoy and Jack Delaney so their name fades out and they don't get he recognition that they perhaps deserve. It's why the likes of Jones Jr are making peoples lists at number 1.

Pretty shocking list especailly by Ring ****zine, would love to hear the editors reason for this. But yet the next 2 lists done by Ring ****zine of the best LHW's of all time, Charles was number #1 both times.

May 1994 Issue
1.Ezzard Charles
2.Archie Moore
3.Bob Foster
4.Gene Tunney
5.Tommy Loughran

2002 Issue
1.Ezzard Charles
2.Archie Moore
3.Michael Spinks
4.Tommy Loughran
5.Bob Foster
6.Jimmy Bivins
7.Harold Johnson
8.Maxie Rosenbloom
9.Billy Conn
10.Matthew Saad Muhammad
11.Victor Galindez
12.Jack Dillon
13.Battling Levinsky
14.Joey Maxim
15.Dwight Muhammad Qawi
16.John Henry Johnson
17.Bob Fitzsimmons
18.Gene Tunney
19.Virgil Hill
20.Marvin Johnson

[Southpaw16BF]

Thanks for the info. I'm definetely no expert on LHW history. I did say 'probably' not top 5 as you can see.

You (and others) have given some excellent info on Charles accomplishments at LHW so I can see why you guys rate him so high. I'm amazed that Charles didn't get a titleshot despite racking up so many wins against excellent opposition.

No problem Bats.....

[StarshipTrooper]

Just for the hell of it I'll repost my own list:

ATGs

01. Ezzard Charles
02. Archie Moore
03. Gene Tunney
04. Bob Foster
05. Michael Spinks
06. Roy Jones Jr.
07. Billy Conn
08. John Henry Lewis
09. Tommy Loughran
10. Tommy Gibbons
11. Maxie Rosenbloom
12. Mauro Mina
13. Jack Dillon
14. Young Stribling


Some Near Greats (Alphabetical)

Jimmy Bivins
Eddie Booker
Georges Carpentier
Joe Choynski
Jack Delaney
Chris Ewbank
Tiger Jack Fox
Victor Galindez
Virgil Hill
Harold Johnson
Joe Knight
Battling Levinsky
Frankie Liles
Llloyd Marshall
Harry Matthews
Joey Maxim
Michael Moorer
Matthew Saad Muhammad
Kid Norfolk
Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
Willie Pastrano
Graciano Rocchiagiani
Antonio Tarver
**** Tiger
Jose Torres
Tommy Yarosz

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