Tyson being past his prime when Douglas beat him???

[slicksouthpaw16]

Tyson was the unified heavyweight champion of the world and was undefeated. I personally believe that Douglas had a lot to do with that. I thought he showed a masterful display of talent, speed, ability and overall skills. This is what stops Tyson from becoming an all time geat IMO. You never seen Ali, Frazier, Holmes, Louis or Marciano lose to this kind of opponent even on thier worse days and they also had personal problems. I do not have a problem with Tyson and think that he was certainly one of the most talented heavyweights of all, but some people need to rethink putting him in the same sentence with Ali or Louis. Think about it, these men fought in a better division and their first losses came to great heavyweights. Tyson fought in a weaker division and loss to...................Buster Douglas. This is by no means a hate thread, but just a few thoughts that i needed to get out.

[sugarshanenas]

tyson wasn't past his prime. don king just ruined him and he stopped doing what made him successful

[Boogie Nights]

This is what stops Tyson from becoming an all time geat IMO. You never seen Ali, Frazier, Holmes, Louis or Marciano lose to this kind of opponent even on thier worse days and they also had personal problems.

i think you're underestimating buster douglas' ability, and the events that sorrounded the fight. Douglas may have been a journeyman but he was a very very talented fighter. what makes him any different from Hasim Rahman who greased Lennox Lewis? i dont mean physically, but i mean their standing in this sport? Both beat great fighters, both were talented but lazy, and had eating issues. The only difference is that lexxox gets no **** for loosing to rahman, but all you ever hear about tyson is how he lost to that 42-1 bum

whether you want to believe it or not, but the buster douglas that showed up against Tyson, would have given a lot of problems to other elite heavyweights. I suspect that the tyson fight is the only fight you have seen with douglas. I recommend getting your hands on other fights so you can properly evaluate him

obviously tyson ****ed up, but you are the minority who doesnt consider mike great, even with everything he's done to make people hate him.

the difference in that fight is that one guy brought his best stuff on display, the other guy didnt

[T-97]

Tyson was in his prime years, But had not trained, and didn't even expect Douglas to see the end of the 1st round.

[The Iron Man]

Tyson was at an age where most people would consider your prime. But as far as boxing ability goes and training/fitness levels he was not.The trainers he had and the people he had around him didnt have the same attitude as Cus did and Rooney did. He also had no decent advisers such as Lott and Jacobs. But it was also tysons fault to an extent, he believed his own hype, that he was unbeatable.
From the fight you can see the lack of head movement, punching in combinations ect. Ive seen an interview with Cayton saying tyson de-hydrated himself before to make weight, im not sure about the truth of this but cayton was later fired and i see no reason for him to lie.
As for Douglas he fought a brilliant fight, and he fought with heart something he didnt do in his other fights. I heard one commentator say this "Tyson could never hurt Buster as much as the death of his mother" he had nothing to lost and a massive insentive to fight. It was a combination of the two that made the greatest upset in sports history.

Ask yourself this, if tyson fought douglas in 1988 or even 91,92,96 what would have been the outcome? Almost certainly a tyson win.

[slicksouthpaw16]

i think you're underestimating buster douglas' ability, and the events that sorrounded the fight. Douglas may have been a journeyman but he was a very very talented fighter. what makes him any different from Hasim Rahman who greased Lennox Lewis? i dont mean physically, but i mean their standing in this sport? Both beat great fighters, both were talented but lazy, and had eating issues. The only difference is that lexxox gets no **** for loosing to rahman, but all you ever hear about tyson is how he lost to that 42-1 bum

whether you want to believe it or not, but the buster douglas that showed up against Tyson, would have given a lot of problems to other elite heavyweights. I suspect that the tyson fight is the only fight you have seen with douglas. I recommend getting your hands on other fights so you can properly evaluate him

obviously tyson ****ed up, but you are the minority who doesnt consider mike great, even with everything he's done to make people hate him.

the difference in that fight is that one guy brought his best stuff on display, the other guy didnt

Great heavyweights deal with adversity, something that Tyson has never shown in his peak years. For example, look at Ali against Cooper. Ali took him lightly and paid a price and was very badly hurt and seemingly on his way out, the difference is that he got up and proved that he was great by dealing with it, buckling down and coming back and stopping Cooper. I would have understood if Tyson was in the fight and it was close, but he was not only dominated but knocked out by this guy. I completely understand that Douglas was talented and had the tools and ability to do something, however it looks bad for Tyson for the simple fact that it was the best Douglas has ever looked in his entire career an he was not even close to being great nor elite. Evander Holyfield( an elite fighter and all time great) took Douglas apart in his very next fight. Look at the opposition that Ali, Louis, Frazier and Foreman lost to and look at Tyson's. My thing is that he has never shown me anything that indicated that he was great and every time that he stepped up against the elites, he lost. Again, the man had every tool to be one of if not the greatest, but talent and your accomplishments are very different.

[The Iron Man]

Tyson kept fighting againsr douglas tho, and didnt give up. He knew into the fight he wasnt in great condition but kept going. The douglas that fought Holyfield was very different. Tyson fought back after being stunned by Bruno and in a very tough two fights against Ruddock (which was a very bad style match up for tyson). But i agree he doenst have as much heart as the other greats, but can u say for certain that Liston, Foreman and Lewis had better hearts?.

[JayCoe]

Tyson was one of the greatest, not the greatest but up there somewhere, but he is alittle more complicated than most boxers because evaluating his status requires alot more than looking at the usual.

Now i've heard so many excuses for Tyson, some of them are rubbish, some are fair points. Either way, i've never heard so many excuses for a single boxer.

If you ask me, there are two Mike Tysons. The "Cus' + Jacobs + Rooney" Tyson and then the "Don King" Tyson. The former was an amazing boxer, purely mind blowing. He ripped apart the Heavyweight Champion Trevor Berbick, about 1 minute into the 2nd round Tyson had won by K.O and left Berbick falling around the ring due to Tyson's intense power. He was the youngest Heavyweight Champion ever, aged only 20. He had immense punching power, awesome speed and reflexes which left people staggered. Sadly, the very fight that made Tyson, (Tyson vs. Berbick) was the very fight that sowed the seeds of chaos in one of Boxings most promising fighters, ever...He met Don King.

After Jacobs died and Rooney wad fired Tyson began to lose everything that made him amazing, even his trademark head movement seemed to slowly dissappear. Don King had made Tyson a money man, not a boxer. By the end of Tyson's career, he'd earnt over $500,000,000. Most of that was not from boxing. Come the Douglas fight Tyson was out of shape, had been out partying and didn't see Douglas as a contender. Douglas fought very well, Tyson was poor, to his standards. He managed to get a knock-down with an uppercut where the count actually lasted 14 seconds. However, this is no excuse, as if you watch Douglas on the floor you see him fully conscious, he hits the floor in frustration of leaving his guard open and begins to rise at the count of 7, a very standard thing to do. If the Ref's count had only lasted 8 actual seconds, Douglas would have no doubt risen at 7 then too. In regards to Holyfield, I genuinely believe he was butting Tyson, if you watch the 2nd fight again and watch the impact which cuts Tyson's eye, it's pretty obvious to me that such a movement could only be deliberate.

To cut this all short, Tyson's story tends to revolve around him not being at peak condition whilst in his biological peak. This, however is no excuse. A part of boxing is keeping yourself fit and capable. Would Ali have been so good if he didn't keep himself in peak condition?...No. None of the massive names would have been, yet, for some reason, Tyson manages to slide past that because fans use his fitness as an excuse for his sometimes sloppy performances and his rare loses. All of this simply means Tyson had the potential to be one of the best, but he wasn't because he didn't keep his fitness up. Butterbean is an extreme example, he was just a fat **** to be honest. 416lbs, massive amount of fat, and i'm serious, he was an actual fatty...His record stood at 77 (58) -7 - 4. That's pretty impressive, but he was **** at boxing, unfit, and his fights were only scheduled to be 4 rounds. He was not one of Boxings greatest, despite his impressive record.

So it depends on how you look at it. Do you look at his boxing ability? If so, Tyson was one of the greatest. Do you look at his potential if he had have kept up his Rooney training, kept fitness etc.? If so, Tyson could have been the greatest. Or do you look at the empirical facts behind him? If so, he was a very good boxer but was not a top 10 fighter.

If you ask me, Tyson was one of the greatest but wouldn't feature in the top 10, however, he had the potential and ability to be in the top 3. With Tyson, I don't think you can look at only 1 of the 3.

[da_beast]

Ali vs Spinks.

I rest my case. The best lose and have off nights

[iron_boy]

tyson wasent passed his prime.. it was the case of overr confident, didnt train properly and a ****ing **** promoter AKA don king!