How Do You Rank All Time Greats?

[Hawkins]

Do you have a particular system you go by? Do you do head-to-head as in an actual match? Do you primarily rank based on achievements and accomplishments?

Personally I compile a list of about 15-20 fighters that are thought to be the best of any one weightclass. I then make a rough Top 10 list and start making comparisons and analysis based on career at said weight, achievements/accomplishments, who beat who and so on and so forth...It's quite interesting to see the list evolve as your opinions change and you come upon new information.


How do you do it?

[hhascup]

I look at a number of things.

1. Who they fought and beat, Champions, Ex-Champions, Contenders, Non-Contenders, Etc.
2. When they fought them, in their prime, past their prime, before their prime, Etc.
3. Their boxing record
4. Watching them on tapes
5. How long were they at the top of their game
6. How they handled different styles, sluggers, boxers, defensive boxers, Big Opponents, Fast Opponents, Etc.
7. How good their Chin was, their power, jab,
8. Talking and listening to other Boxing Historians & Experts
9. AND tons of other things.



Back in 1963, a Boxing ****zine ran an article on all the Heavyweight Champions. They rated them on Power, Chin, Footwork, Jab, Hook, Right & Stamina.

Recently Bill Gray wrote a book called "Boxing Top 100" The Greatest Champions of All Time, he went by 29 different catagories.

These charts provide comparisons in four areas:

1. Age Comparison:
Beg: Age at which a fighter began his career.
End: Age at retirement.
PC: Age of fighter in his first championship fight.
LC: Age of fighter when he won his last championship fight.
LCP: Age of fighter when he fought his last championship fight.

2. Years Comparison
Car: Length of fighter's career.
Ch: Number of years a fighter was a champion.
TB: Span of time fighter engaged in title bouts.
VS: Span of time between first and last championship win.
%C: Percent of fighter's career as a champion.

3. Title Bouts Comparison
Tot: Number of title bouts.
W: Title bout victories.
W%: Won-lost percentage in title bouts.
#/Yr: Average number of title bouts fought per year.

4. Career Bouts Comparison
Tot: Career bouts.
KO: Career wins by knockout.
WD: Career wins by decision.
LKO: Career losses by knockout.
LD: Career losses by decision.
#/Y r: Average number of fights per year during career.


The entry directly below the fighter is Avg. Champ: These lines show the averaged production and vital statistics of all fighters in 29 categories. The last entry, 'Difference' is the summation of the champion's production against average. From this we can determine that any champion is above or
below the established median of 700 champions by a factor of X.

The champion's charts show a career in a different way than the traditional review basis of wins, losses, and draws. Every fighter is analyzed in 29 categories and ranked against a 700 group median in each category. Here are the 29 categories and medians, and Sugar Ray Robinson's actual performance compared to the medians.

................................Robinson ……Median
1. Age at beginning of career: 19?9
2. Age at end of career: 44?3
3. Length (years) of career: 25?3
4. Age at time of first title bout win: 25?5
5. Age at time of last title bout win: 37?27
6. Age at time of last championship fight: 40?29
7. Total number of years fighter held a title: 12..2
8. Number of years a fighter engaged in championship fights: -- 15 3
9. Number of title bouts won: 14 3
10. Number of title bouts fought: 22 5
11. Average number of title fights per year: 1.2 1.5
12. Percentage of career that the fighter was a champion: 52 14
13. Bouts to a decisio.n. (excludes no-decision bouts): 200 57
14. Career wins by decision: 66 18
15. Career losses by decision: 18 4
16. Career wins by knockout: 109 26
17. Percentage of total wins by knockout: 55 46
18. Percentage of total losses by knockout: 5 33
19. Career won-lost percentage: 88 82
20. Title fights as a percentage of total career bouts: 11 9
21. Won-lost percentage in title bouts: 64 60
22. Number of years between first and last title bout win: 12 2
23. Number of years between first and last title fight: 15 3
24. Percent of career spent as a champion: 52 14
25. Number of titles won (includes titles regained): 6 3
26. Losses by knockout: 1 2
27. Net wins (total fights to a decision minus losses): 156 38
28. Average number of fights per year: 8 4.4
29. Failure to win in a title bout (includes draws): 8 2

[Hawkins]

So you base all of your rankings on statistical information?

[hhascup]

So you base all of your rankings on statistical information?

Mostly, But like I also stated:

4. Watching them on tapes
8. Talking and listening to other Boxing Historians & Experts

Just read what I put down:

I look at a number of things.

1. Who they fought and beat, Champions, Ex-Champions, Contenders, Non-Contenders, Etc.
2. When they fought them, in their prime, past their prime, before their prime, Etc.
3. Their boxing record
4. Watching them on tapes
5. How long were they at the top of their game
6. How they handled different styles, sluggers, boxers, defensive boxers, Big Opponents, Fast Opponents, Etc.
7. How good their Chin was, their power, jab,
8. Talking and listening to other Boxing Historians & Experts
9. AND tons of other things.

[Hawkins]

Mostly, But like I also stated:

4. Watching them on tapes
8. Talking and listening to other Boxing Historians & Experts

Just read what I put down:

I look at a number of things.

1. Who they fought and beat, Champions, Ex-Champions, Contenders, Non-Contenders, Etc.
2. When they fought them, in their prime, past their prime, before their prime, Etc.
3. Their boxing record
4. Watching them on tapes
5. How long were they at the top of their game
6. How they handled different styles, sluggers, boxers, defensive boxers, Big Opponents, Fast Opponents, Etc.
7. How good their Chin was, their power, jab,
8. Talking and listening to other Boxing Historians & Experts
9. AND tons of other things.

Yea I saw that. I just figured you lingered more toward the statistical end.

[hhascup]

Yea I saw that. I just figured you lingered more toward the statistical end.

I try to take everything into consideration.

[Hawkins]

I try to take everything into consideration.

Well I do too..other than statistics that is..it's not that I don't enjoy stats, the numbers just start running together on me after awhile.

Do you compile all the stats yourself? Do you use a program?

[hhascup]

Well I do too..other than statistics that is..it's not that I don't enjoy stats, the numbers just start running together on me after awhile.

Do you compile all the stats yourself? Do you use a program?

I do it mostly by myself. The ones that I showed you, I done on my own.

[The Iron Man]

I take into account :
Agility
Power
Jab
Speed
Explosvieness
Chin
Stamina
Heart
Defence
Reign
Number of Defences
Opposition
Impact
Achievements

[AntonTheMeh]

to me it's got to be separate.
everybody knows the guys today are more talented with the exception of a few

i say separate with the modern era from the 40's to today
and the old timers from the thirty's and back
joe louis is the bridge