Top 10 Heavies from best to worst

[Rusty Tromboni]

You're conveniently missing the point. Greb had already beaten these fighters. So what reason was there for Dempsey to fight them and not Greb? I'll wait.

You make it sound as though Greb beat them, and they turned around to fight Dempsey. That's not the case.

Greb was a couple years ahead of Dempsey career wise.

It also tends to be that as fighters age, they grow in size and increase in skill. That doesn't change the fact that Dempsey emphatically finished opponents.

Hagler is considered one of the greatest Middleweights of all-time. Ray Leonard, despite beating him, is not. Some of Hagler's biggest wins were against men Ray had already beat; again, with no expectation of him actually fighting Ray himself.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Remind me again how long Wills was the number one contender when Dempsey skipped over him yet again to fight Tunney?

We have footage of Wills. He was terrible.

He lost to Sharkey.

And he sh.it the bed against Firpo. Firpo was a finished fighter after fighting Dempsey - everything but the raging bull so swiftly and brutally disparched of by Dempsey. Yet the best Wills could muster was an uninspiring UD. He got KD, but that's it.

With a lipid performance like that, on what should've been his coming out party, it's clear Dempsey didn't need to fight Wills.

[JAB5239]

We have footage of Wills. He was terrible.

He lost to Sharkey.

And he sh.it the bed against Firpo. Firpo was a finished fighter after fighting Dempsey - everything but the raging bull so swiftly and brutally disparched of by Dempsey. Yet the best Wills could muster was an uninspiring UD. He got KD, but that's it.

With a lipid performance like that, on what should've been his coming out party, it's clear Dempsey didn't need to fight Wills.

You do realize at the time of those losses Wills had over 80 (not including smokers and unreported) fights and had been fighting for 16 plus years, right?

And he was obviously good enough that many white Americans were calling for the Dempsey fight to be made for years while Wills was Dempsey's number one contender.

I also noticed you asked for proof of Dempsey fighting Grebs leftovers. I've provided it yet you haven't responded to that.

[Rusty Tromboni]

You do realize at the time of those losses Wills had over 80 (not including smokers and unreported) fights and had been fighting for 16 plus years, right?

And he was obviously good enough that many white Americans were calling for the Dempsey fight to be made for years while Wills was Dempsey's number one contender.

Wills was his era's Bob Sapp. He was bigger than everybody else that's it.
Langford KO'd him. Sharkey KO'd him. He stumbled through a deflated and liquored up Firpo.

That's not the same as Foreman dodging Quarry. Or Lewis retiring before giving Vitali a rematch. Or Holyfield losing to everyone good.

[Rusty Tromboni]

You do realize at the time of those losses Wills had over 80 (not including smokers and unreported) fights and had been fighting for 16 plus years, right?

And he was obviously good enough that many white Americans were calling for the Dempsey fight to be made for years while Wills was Dempsey's number one contender.

I also noticed you asked for proof of Dempsey fighting Grebs leftovers. I've provided it yet you haven't responded to that.

I did reply. But it was in a rant of a post, i spologize for that.

Basically, they fought Dempsey some time later. It's not like upon immediately losing to Greb, they signed to fight Dempsey.

[JAB5239]

Wills was his era's Bob Sapp. He was bigger than everybody else that's it.
Langford KO'd him. Sharkey KO'd him. He stumbled through a deflated and liquored up Firpo.

That's not the same as Foreman dodging Quarry. Or Lewis retiring before giving Vitali a rematch. Or Holyfield losing to everyone good.

So why if he was so bad didn't Dempsey fight him? The demand was there. The ranking was there. You're running out of excuses.

[JAB5239]

I did reply. But it was in a rant of a post, i spologize for that.

Basically, they fought Dempsey some time later. It's not like upon immediately losing to Greb, they signed to fight Dempsey.

Sometime later? So Greb was unworthy but the men he beat were? You keep digging yourself deeper and deeper into a hole.

[Rusty Tromboni]

So why if he was so bad didn't Dempsey fight him? The demand was there. The ranking was there. You're running out of excuses.

That's exactly the point. He wasn't good enough.

I can see an argument being made that Dempsey wasn't active enough a champion. He definitely appears to have lost his vigor shortly after becoming champion.

But as Willie illustrated, the money wasn't right. Jack really only wanted to fight the best.

That's why he gave Tunney a shot, instead.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Sometime later? So Greb was unworthy but the men he beat were? You keep digging yourself deeper and deeper into a hole.

I can definitely see an argument being made for Greb over Wills, but the timing of Greb's victories and how much more convincingly Dempsey performed against their shared competition shows that it wasn't for any fear of Greb that they didn't meet.

I've referred elsewhere to Ray Leonard and Hagler. The same principle applies even more here. As time passes, fighters grow in size and improve in skill.

How about Pryor beating a young Hearns. Would you give Pryor a ty chance against the scalps Tommy would later claim?


Again, this is clearly unfortunate. But it's not the same as Louis dodging Schmeling. Lewis dodging Tyson. Ali returning from exile once Frazier was slowing down. Or Marciano aborting his return because he knew he couldn't handle Ingo.

[JAB5239]

That's exactly the point. He wasn't good enough.

I can see an argument being made that Dempsey wasn't active enough a champion. He definitely appears to have lost his vigor shortly after becoming champion.

But as Willie illustrated, the money wasn't right. Jack really only wanted to fight the best.

That's why he gave Tunney a shot, instead.

Yet Wills was rated number one for like five years and Dempsey choose to pick on Grebs leftovers instead. SMH.