Top 10 Heavies from best to worst

[Dempsey19]

H2H Top 10

1. Evander Holyfield- beat Tyson, Holmes, Bowe, arguably Lennox Lewis, Foreman and many more, more often than not when past his prime and with a bad heart. He had more heart than any boxer ever and that means something.
2. Muhammad Ali- Beat Foreman, Frazier, Liston and many more more often than not past his prime, fastest 200+ pounder of all time. Was still competitive into middle age.
3. Jack Dempsey- fastest heavyweight of all time, brutal 2 handed puncher, great chin, stamina and strength, best p4p body puncher of all time, the father of modern combat sports. Brutalized Willard and technically beat Tunney when shot.
4. George Foreman- brutalized Frazier, arguably the strongest heavyweight of all time and the largest in the pocket, was still heavyweight champion of the world when pushing 50.
5. Joe Louis- beat Max Baer and Braddock, ruled the heavyweight division for decades, inhuman hand speed, incredible combo of inside game and outboxing skill, great technical skill and power, 2 handed KO power, best counterpuncher among heavyweights, p4p best combinations of all time
6. Larry Holmes- beat Ali, incredibly complete boxer, best overhand right among heavyweights, p4p the best jab of all time, proved a good right may take you to the end of the fight but a good left will take you around the world in the words of AJ.
7. Rid**** Bowe- One of the prototypes of the modern heavyweight division, beat Holyfield twice. Incredible power and great skill.
8. Lennox Lewis- A prototype of the modern heavyweight division. Beat Holyfield, Tyson and Vitali Klitschko.
9. Mike Tyson- beat Larry Holmes, incredible speed and power, a KO machine, a great specialist and athlete. 2nd most intimidating heavyweight after Liston
10. Gene Tunney- most technically skilled heavyweight, if not boxer of all time. Beat Dempsey.

Honorable Mentions- Frazier, Marciano, Liston, Corrie Sanders, Vitali, Wladimir, Tyson Fury, Max Baer, Jack Johnson, Bob Fitzsimmons, Jess Willard, Ike Ibeabuchi, Braddock, Tommy Morrisson

One of the reasons that Marciano is only an honourable mention is because he was never beaten, I’m not really sure of his limits.

[P4P Forever]

This was mine from another thread:

10. Lennox Lewis - He was the last to officially clean up the division, though his wins against all-time greats Holyfield, and Tyson are skewed, given their ages. He was a sound technical fighter, he had good power, and given his size, would have been formidable in any era. He was one of the few who actually got better with age. He fought some of his best fights in his 30's, which is extremely rare, especially for a heavyweight. This is a temporary placeholder at #10, however, as this spot changes more frequently for me than any other on the list. Many people would place Jack Johnson, or someone else from a vintage era here, which is completely respectable.

9. Jack Dempsey - One of the original true terrors. He was smaller than a lot of guys, but he tore them down like it was his job. Well...I guess it technically was. He was dominant in his era, and although he encountered one piece of kryptonite during the course of his career (Tunney), that can't erase one of the true greats from history's list.

8. Charles "Sonny" Liston - Perhaps the most feared fighter of the entire century, Liston tore his way to the top, avenging his only decision loss (Marshall), and destroying then heavyweight champion Floyd Patterson twice, in a total of two rounds. I don't rate him any higher than 8 for now, however, as he only successfully defended his title once, and then failed to splash back onto the scene. He was a fierce, freak of nature, with an incredible reach, and a jackhammer jab.

7. Mike Tyson - A perpetual buzzsaw at his best, a sad, sub-human quitter at his worst, "Iron" Mike was perhaps the single most exciting fighter in heavyweight history. He tore through the division on his way to the crown, decimating all, and leaving little to question when he swept the championship belts onto his shoulders as a mere boy amongst men. Truly, the last heavyweight to hold the undisputed crown for any significant length of time. Were it not for his odd personna and tragic private life, he could have been discussed much higher on many lists. He had rare physical talents, perhaps not seen in any other fighter; he possessed speed, power, and elusiveness in dangerous supply. Given how he turned out, however, this is the absolute highest I can rate him, and he tends to fluctuate on my list from positions as high as 7, and as low as 12.

6. Joe Frazier - The hardest working individual, period. The man didn't lift weights, he was small for a heavyweight, he was a converted lefty, he was awkward, and at times slow. "Smokin" Joe Frazier was a warrior, a true battler who brought 100% from the opening introductions to the final bell. Perhaps my favorite fighter of all-time, he simply got there by out-hustling his opponents. A man with a heart as big as the moon, he could have been the greatest, were he not overshadowed by two others from the same era.

5. George Foreman - I place the grillmaster in the middle of my list, because his accomplishments weren't amazing, having only successfully defended the title for two professional bouts, and containing the largest list of tomato cans in grocery store history. Even so, the man was an absolute house. He even put my #6 boxer to shame, by knocking him to the canvas half-a-dozen times in two rounds. When it seemed as though he was merely a power slugger who's career never truly got there, he comes back, after more than nine years away, and slugs his way to the top to win the belt 20 years after losing it! He showed heart, and tactical boxing skill; two qualities sorely lacking from his dominant prime.

4. Larry Holmes - The man won 48 consecutive fights, and defended the title for 7 years before finally succumbing to age and wear. Even so, he went on to have a fairly successful extended career lasting well into his 50's. Perhaps the best pure boxer, with the most complete game on the list, the "Easton Assassin" is often underrated and dismissed as a shadow to the fighters of the 60's and 70's. I know one thing's for sure: he would perhaps be the single most difficult opponent for anyone at any point in history. He could come back from devastating power (see: Shavers 1 & 2), turn a fight around in the midst of losing (see: Witherspoon), and deliver a combination of speed, power, courage, and stamina that many of his predecessors couldn't boast of containing in such quan****** together.

3. Rocky Marciano - The only heavyweight champion to retire undefeated. 49-0. Nothing else needs to be said. It doesn't matter who he faced, or how sloppy he was getting there, the man simply won. It's all he knew how to do. He couldn't be put away, and he had stamina to punch through walls for 20+ rounds. I rate him higher than do many other boxing historians, despite his (seemingly) lackluster competition, but he has accomplished something that may never happen again. He did this while taking on all comers and top contenders of his era.

2. Muhammad Ali - In a head-to-head competition, Ali beats nearly everyone on this list without too much trouble. Given the awkward style matchup, I'd say that he easily handles #1 & #3. This isn't a vs. list, however; it's the greatest champions. As a champion, he was superb. It's a shame that most of his time as champ was spent when his gifts of speed, fluidity, and elusiveness were gone. There is no doubt that Ali has had the biggest impact on the sport, and on particular groups of cultural society in America. "The Greatest" was taken from the sport during his prime years. Some would say it was a judgment for speaking out against the One True God, while others would claim that the government was out to get him. Whatever the case, he still overcame the loss of his swift feet to outsmart, and outwill his way back to the top, 10 years after accomplishing it the first time. He has left us with some of the best, and perhaps the most memorable moments in sports history.

1. Joe Louis - He defended the title 25 times over the course of a 12-year stretch. He avenged his first loss in the most impressive fashion seen before or since. He was sound in all aspects of the game. To have a "prime" last as long as he did is unfathomable by today's standards. He was simply the best, for the longest period of time, and didn't truly suffer a loss except while he was green (which he avenged in brutal fashion), and again, while he was well beyond his best years against Ezzard Charles and Rocky Marciano. Those names are hardly the tags of a couple of bums or journeymen. Joe Louis even took 4 years off to serve his country, and he still returned in very impressive fashion. The man was the most complete fighter in heavyweight history. The "Brown Bomber" loved the sport of boxing, and aided in bringing it to the forefront of all sports. Even though he would match up poorly to my #2, his accomplishments inside and outside of the ring are more than enough to earn him the #1 spot, on my list of the greatest heavyweights of all-time.

Well, there you have it. A little dramatic, a little wishy-washy, but it's my current list. Stay tuned when I'll probably change it in three days time.

Very well put together list! I just want to make one point Holyfield fought 4 of your top 10! 4W 1D 1L That alone is amazing.

[Hands_of_Marcos]

Those are amazing lists; I will just do my top 10 if it’s ok...

TOP TEN HEAVYWEIGHTS
(ALL-TIME)

10: Gene Tunney, USA
It could be argued that he did not have one of the best resumes in heavyweight history, but I feel he is among the most underrated heavyweights of all time and deserves a mention. He beat the legend Jack Dempsey and in my opinion ranks just ahead of him all-time, edging his way into the top ten. He owns one of the most impressive records in heavyweight history with over eighty wins and only one loss (to the legendary Harry Greb), which was not even fought at heavyweight, and which he avenged several times over.

9: Jack Johnson, USA
A great fighter who revolutionized the way heavyweights fought, he was not only a strong athlete, he was also psychologically resilient and undeterred by the racist attitudes of his day. He was one of the progenitors of what would come to be known as the African American or Black Urban style of boxing, with slick defense, agile movements, hard punches and lots of flair.

8: George Foreman, USA
I don’t think he ever fully recovered from the loss he suffered to Muhammad Ali until he was way past his prime. Nevertheless, I still think he was one of the best, and he’s one of my favorite boxers of all time. He had major dynamite in his fists and holds the honor of being the oldest man to ever win the heavyweight title (against Michael Moorer, who was about 20 years his junior).

7: Vitali Klitschko, Ukraine
He is another very underrated heavyweight. He was big and tall and had killer moves and instincts. I give him a decent fighting chance against anyone from any era.

6: Smokin?Joe Frazier, USA
One of my favorite old-time boxers as a young teen, he, in his words, clipped the butterfly’s wings. Not many can say they’ve beat the greatest, especially when he was still very close to his peak. Frazier also has the distinction, in my opinion, the most devastating left hook in heavyweight boxing history.

5: Mike Tyson, USA
Mike Tyson really was the Baddest Man on the Planet. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a wrecking ball as destructive and maniacal as he was in his early 20s, while still being technically sound.

4: Lennox Lewis, Canada / U.K.
Another extremely underrated heavyweight, he had great reach, great ring IQ, and an ability to throw powerful combinations with both hands. In my opinion, he was perhaps the most balanced and talented heavyweight boxer in history, overall. Some may have hit harder or had higher ring IQ, but he charted very high across the board in every skill a boxer needs - something not many heavyweights can say. His only weakness, in my opinion, was an occasional lack of focus. If not for this, I feel he would have beat Oliver McCall and Hasim Rahman in the fights he lost to them (defeats which were later avenged anyway). On his best day, I think he can neutralize and break down anyone from any era (yes that includes Joe Louis, prime Mike Tyson, Muhammad Ali, and anyone fighting today ?including Deontay Wilder and Tyson Fury.)

3: Joe Louis, USA
The Brown Bomber was simply a giant among men. His reign as heavyweight champion is unparalleled. In his prime, he was one of the most dangerous punchers in history, and his ring IQ was off the charts. He not only routinely beat the best heavyweights of his golden generation, he was usually levels above them.

2: Rocky Marciano, USA
A legend who holds the unique honor of never losing a fight in his entire heavyweight career. This is much harder (in my opinion) than going undefeated in the lower divisions, since heavyweights can turn a fight with one punch. He has one of the best resumes of all time, and the only reason I don’t have him at number one is because some of the best names on his resume were somewhat past their primes.

1: Muhammad Ali, USA
In my opinion, he really does stand out as the greatest heavyweight of all time. As a young Cassius Clay, his speed and agility was light years beyond any heavyweight who came before or after him. As Muhammad Ali, his fight game matured and, in my opinion, he truly cane to possess the highest ring IQ in boxing history. He was able to turn a dire situation into a breathtaking victory not with one punch power so much as a lightning quick mind and Napoleon-level strategizing on the fly. It’s sad to say that we probably missed witnessing his peak as he was serving his ban at this time. But that only goes to show that he was likely even more talented than we will ever know.

[QueensburyRules]

I like that Jersey Joe made the underrated list at least, the guy was quality. he had a good retirement, he became a police chief. lived til age 85.

- -Lived long enough to butcher the Ali/Liston rematch.

FairPlay, I always liked Jersey Joe, but he blew it in that fight worse than any KO losses.

[QueensburyRules]

Bob Satterfield was a Light-Heavy who had one punch power when fighting Heavyweights; unfortunately for him his chin was so bad he made many of his opponents look like THEY had one punch power too.

Poet

- -And your poetry makes you look like you don't knoetry...

[Emilynoah918]

Wow

This was mine from another thread:

10. Lennox Lewis - He was the last to officially clean up the division, though his wins against all-time greats Holyfield, and Tyson are skewed, given their ages. He was a sound technical fighter, he had good power, and given his size, would have been formidable in any era. He was one of the few who actually got better with age. He fought some of his best fights in his 30's, which is extremely rare, especially for a heavyweight. This is a temporary placeholder at #10, however, as this spot changes more frequently for me than any other on the list. Many people would place Jack Johnson, or someone else from a vintage era here, which is completely respectable.

9. Jack Dempsey - One of the original true terrors. He was smaller than a lot of guys, but he tore them down like it was his job. Well...I guess it technically was. He was dominant in his era, and although he encountered one piece of kryptonite during the course of his career (Tunney), that can't erase one of the true greats from history's list.

8. Charles "Sonny" Liston - Perhaps the most feared fighter of the entire century, Liston tore his way to the top, avenging his only decision loss (Marshall), and destroying then heavyweight champion Floyd Patterson twice, in a total of two rounds. I don't rate him any higher than 8 for now, however, as he only successfully defended his title once, and then failed to splash back onto the scene. He was a fierce, freak of nature, with an incredible reach, and a jackhammer jab.

7. Mike Tyson - A perpetual buzzsaw at his best, a sad, sub-human quitter at his worst, "Iron" Mike was perhaps the single most exciting fighter in heavyweight history. He tore through the division on his way to the crown, decimating all, and leaving little to question when he swept the championship belts onto his shoulders as a mere boy amongst men. Truly, the last heavyweight to hold the undisputed crown for any significant length of time. Were it not for his odd personna and tragic private life, he could have been discussed much higher on many lists. He had rare physical talents, perhaps not seen in any other fighter; he possessed speed, power, and elusiveness in dangerous supply. Given how he turned out, however, this is the absolute highest I can rate him, and he tends to fluctuate on my list from positions as high as 7, and as low as 12.

6. Joe Frazier - The hardest working individual, period. The man didn't lift weights, he was small for a heavyweight, he was a converted lefty, he was awkward, and at times slow. "Smokin" Joe Frazier was a warrior, a true battler who brought 100% from the opening introductions to the final bell. Perhaps my favorite fighter of all-time, he simply got there by out-hustling his opponents. A man with a heart as big as the moon, he could have been the greatest, were he not overshadowed by two others from the same era.

5. George Foreman - I place the grillmaster in the middle of my list, because his accomplishments weren't amazing, having only successfully defended the title for two professional bouts, and containing the largest list of tomato cans in grocery store history. Even so, the man was an absolute house. He even put my #6 boxer to shame, by knocking him to the canvas half-a-dozen times in two rounds. When it seemed as though he was merely a power slugger who's career never truly got there, he comes back, after more than nine years away, and slugs his way to the top to win the belt 20 years after losing it! He showed heart, and tactical boxing skill; two qualities sorely lacking from his dominant prime.

4. Larry Holmes - The man won 48 consecutive fights, and defended the title for 7 years before finally succumbing to age and wear. Even so, he went on to have a fairly successful extended career lasting well into his 50's. Perhaps the best pure boxer, with the most complete game on the list, the "Easton Assassin" is often underrated and dismissed as a shadow to the fighters of the 60's and 70's. I know one thing's for sure: he would perhaps be the single most difficult opponent for anyone at any point in history. He could come back from devastating power (see: Shavers 1 & 2), turn a fight around in the midst of losing (see: Witherspoon), and deliver a combination of speed, power, courage, and stamina that many of his predecessors couldn't boast of containing in such quan****** together.

3. Rocky Marciano - The only heavyweight champion to retire undefeated. 49-0. Nothing else needs to be said. It doesn't matter who he faced, or how sloppy he was getting there, the man simply won. It's all he knew how to do. He couldn't be put away, and he had stamina to punch through walls for 20+ rounds. I rate him higher than do many other boxing historians, despite his (seemingly) lackluster competition, but he has accomplished something that may never happen again. He did this while taking on all comers and top contenders of his era.

2. Muhammad Ali - In a head-to-head competition, Ali beats nearly everyone on this list without too much trouble. Given the awkward style matchup, I'd say that he easily handles #1 & #3. This isn't a vs. list, however; it's the greatest champions. As a champion, he was superb. It's a shame that most of his time as champ was spent when his gifts of speed, fluidity, and elusiveness were gone. There is no doubt that Ali has had the biggest impact on the sport, and on particular groups of cultural society in America. "The Greatest" was taken from the sport during his prime years. Some would say it was a judgment for speaking out against the One True God, while others would claim that the government was out to get him. Whatever the case, he still overcame the loss of his swift feet to outsmart, and outwill his way back to the top, 10 years after accomplishing it the first time. He has left us with some of the best, and perhaps the most memorable moments in sports history.

1. Joe Louis - He defended the title 25 times over the course of a 12-year stretch. He avenged his first loss in the most impressive fashion seen before or since. He was sound in all aspects of the game. To have a "prime" last as long as he did is unfathomable by today's standards. He was simply the best, for the longest period of time, and didn't truly suffer a loss except while he was green (which he avenged in brutal fashion), and again, while he was well beyond his best years against Ezzard Charles and Rocky Marciano. Those names are hardly the tags of a couple of bums or journeymen. Joe Louis even took 4 years off to serve his country, and he still returned in very impressive fashion. The man was the most complete fighter in heavyweight history. The "Brown Bomber" loved the sport of boxing, and aided in bringing it to the forefront of all sports. Even though he would match up poorly to my #2, his accomplishments inside and outside of the ring are more than enough to earn him the #1 spot, on my list of the greatest heavyweights of all-time.

Well, there you have it. A little dramatic, a little wishy-washy, but it's my current list. Stay tuned when I'll probably change it in three days time.

[QueensburyRules]

Very well put together list! I just want to make one point Holyfield fought 4 of your top 10! 4W 1D 1L That alone is amazing.

- -It's expected that every era fans will chose their era over other eras.

[Rusty Tromboni]

The chief problems with Heavyweight are that: 1) It has the most attention of any division over history, so fighters are recognized more for their impact out of the ring than for their achievements inside of it, which distorts perception; 2) fighters have grown over time, so Heavyweights have become bigger over the years.

So it really comes down to criteria and which criterion is most important to a person. Here are the major ones:

1) Impact - this needs to be dismissed. But we must all acknowledge that everyone is affected by it. Anglo Dundee, George Foreman... they all based their pick on this. So it's understandable, but not acceptable.

2) Title reign/achievement

3) P4P - really heavyweights lists ARE P4P lists for the other half.

3) Raw talent

4) Competition

5) Head-to-Head

6) Longevity

7) Precociousness


For most of these criteria Fury is tops. Collectively he has the best showing.

But here's how I would break them down for everyone not named Fury.

Title Reign: Louis, Holmes, Wlad

P4P: Tunney, Dempsey, Frazier, Ali

Raw talent: Dempsey, Tunney, Ali

Competition: Ali, Holyfield, Lewis

H2H: Vitali, Ali, Wilder, Foreman, Tyson

Longevity: Ali, Holmes, Louis, Wlad, Holyfield,

Preciousness: Dempsey, Marciano, Tyson, Frazier, Liston

That probably does more to clutter than clarify. And I am sure people will always find room to disagree. But at least is shows why ranking Heavyweights is difficult.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Right now I like:

1) Fury
2) Vitali
3) Ali
4) Foreman
5) Louis
6) Holmes
7) Frazier
8) Lewis
9) Wlad
10) Dempsey

It's really hard. And probably there's never a right answer.

[chrisJS]

I've generally always keep the same 12 but the order has bounced around a bit over time. I am not ready to put Fury in there but I do think if he beats Joshua and say one or two of the top guys in the current division maybe I would consider him in the top 12.

Here's mine:

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Larry Holmes
4. Joe Frazier
5. Lennox Lewis
6. Evander Holyfield
7. Rocky Marciano
8. Sonny Liston
9. George Foreman
10. Jack Johnson
11. Mike Tyson 12. Jack Dempsey

I favor Frazier over Holmes in a mythical head to head but think Holmes beats Foreman whereas we saw Foreman-Frazier. I am tempted to have Frazier ahead but Holmes' longevity and some of the performances as an oldie like vs. Mercer are outstanding. Lewis-Holyfield is very close for me and perhaps it's their h2h which makes me lean Lewis even though it was at a more advantageous period for Lewis. Holyfield is the greater overall fighter of the two however. Marciano I can place higher some days. I have no arguments with folks having him at 3 or 10. Liston probably would be higher had he gotten a fair shake earlier. I think he'd be in my top 3 or 4 h2h. Ali and Louis is almost interchangeable. It just feels right having Ali as he has Frazier, Foreman and Liston (though at least one of those could be written of IMO).