most underrated underapreciated champion of all time

[realheavyhands]

[Mr. Ryan]

With regards to the heavyweights, I'd say it's Larry Holmes. Larry Holmes' problem was that he was "The champion next door," just your average family man who wasn't a larger than life character following a tough act in Muhammad Ali. He was 48-0 before getting jobbed twice by Michael Spinks. He made 20 successful defenses of the title, including Earnie Shavers, Muhammad Ali, Gerry Cooney, and Tim Witherspoon.

People loved to knock Holmes, particularly the "brilliant" Howard Cossel who said Holmes was average and at times, dismal. Of course, this is the same Cossel who said Ali-Norton I was the biggest mismatch in the history of the sport.

Holmes was only stopped once, that by Mike Tyson when he was in his late 30s after 2+ years of inactivity.

Holmes' mixture of movement, jabbing, combination punching, and heart make him one of the top 7 heavyweight champions of all time. Unfortunately, he may never get the recognition as such.

[CletusVanDamme]

With regards to the heavyweights, I'd say it's Larry Holmes. Larry Holmes' problem was that he was "The champion next door," just your average family man who wasn't a larger than life character following a tough act in Muhammad Ali. He was 48-0 before getting jobbed twice by Michael Spinks. He made 20 successful defenses of the title, including Earnie Shavers, Muhammad Ali, Gerry Cooney, and Tim Witherspoon.

People loved to knock Holmes, particularly the "brilliant" Howard Cossel who said Holmes was average and at times, dismal. Of course, this is the same Cossel who said Ali-Norton I was the biggest mismatch in the history of the sport.

Holmes was only stopped once, that by Mike Tyson when he was in his late 30s after 2+ years of inactivity.

Holmes' mixture of movement, jabbing, combination punching, and heart make him one of the top 7 heavyweight champions of all time. Unfortunately, he may never get the recognition as such.

I would totally agree with Holmes as most underrated champion in Heavyweight at least. Smith, Williams, Weaver, Snipes and Broad(who was highly regarded at the time) were also impressive defenses.

[realheavyhands]

holmes was great but liston was the best all time.. he hurt his shoulder vs ali.. and up to that point he was winning the fight..liston was the type to never run out of gas.. and if you watch he was having trouble throwing his jab.. we all know the second fight was fixed ... not to mention liston was around 40 years old when he fought ali and was winning.. no one new his real age and he was run by the mob... who claimed he was 29. apparently the odds were 8-1 vs ali in ali favor and the mob put tons of money on ali.. watch the fight lisotn wasnt even trying..after he won the title and nobody cared about him .. he didnt even care about boxing it was all about the money.. he got killed after he was supposed to loose a fight.. in 1970 when he was supposedly 38 .. but he was actually closer to 50

[Mr. Ryan]

holmes was great but liston was the best all time.. he hurt his shoulder vs ali.. and up to that point he was winning the fight..liston was the type to never run out of gas.. and if you watch he was having trouble throwing his jab.. we all know the second fight was fixed ... not to mention liston was around 40 years old when he fought ali and was winning.. no one new his real age and he was run by the mob... who claimed he was 29. apparently the odds were 8-1 vs ali in ali favor and the mob put tons of money on ali.. watch the fight lisotn wasnt even trying..after he won the title and nobody cared about him .. he didnt even care about boxing it was all about the money.. he got killed after he was supposed to loose a fight.. in 1970 when he was supposedly 38 .. but he was actually closer to 50

Liston was certainly not the best of all time. Liston was older than his "age" suggested, and I do think he should've gotten his title shot years earlier. The truth is, his out of the ring exploits made it hard to give him a break. Nonethelss, you are not the greatest heavyweight champion of all time if you only have one successful title defense.

And you DO NOT give up the most prized possession in boxing because your shoulder hurts.

[Mr. Ryan]

I would totally agree with Holmes as most underrated champion in Heavyweight at least. Smith, Williams, Weaver, Snipes and Broad(who was highly regarded at the time) were also impressive defenses.

Oh the Roy Williams fight was something else. Holmes took the fight on less than a weeks notice and broke his right hand in the third I believe. To go the distance with a strong mofo like Williams is something else.

Against Weaver, you could clearly see Holmes was on the slide. There is no reason Weaver should've been that tough. Mr. Snipes had Holmes out, he truly went from pillar to post on that shot LOL.

I'm not familiar with the Broad fight however. I did appreciate the Leon Spinks fight, that was special.

[CletusVanDamme]

Oh the Roy Williams fight was something else. Holmes took the fight on less than a weeks notice and broke his right hand in the third I believe. To go the distance with a strong mofo like Williams is something else.

Against Weaver, you could clearly see Holmes was on the slide. There is no reason Weaver should've been that tough. Mr. Snipes had Holmes out, he truly went from pillar to post on that shot LOL.

I'm not familiar with the Broad fight however. I did appreciate the Leon Spinks fight, that was special.

Carl Williams but I know what you mean. Weaver is underrated imo and Snipes was a hell of a fighter and the last of the Mobbed up guys I am sure of. He had close ties to the Gambino family and was buddies with Sammy the Bull and even was thrown out of the last Gotti trial trying to intimidate jurors. Thought you might find that interesting. James Broad was highly regarded and I remember Tyson talked highly of him in his first Ring ****zine appearance.

[Mr. Ryan]

LOL I know Snipes, he's a figure around NYC boxing. I do remember reading about that in the Gotti book Goombata, but it slipped my mind. Snipes is a cool guy.

[realheavyhands]

i agree and i disagree.. i agree about his legacy about few title defenses.. but times were different he already fought everybody else.. he had the best jab ever in heavyweight boxing even better then holmes was alwasy in position to punch and defend could fight going foward or backward and could roll and counter.. skill wise hes the only guy that could of beat every heavyweight ever

[butterfly1964]

I totally agree. Liston is really a top three heavyweight of all-time, but he struggles to get on peoples top ten lists. It's disgusting.