In this week's mailbag, top trainer Stephen "Breadman" Edwards looks back on last week in Philadelphia and assesses the outings of Bam Rodriguez and Boots Ennis, he explores the greatness of Salvador Sanchez and Julio Cesar Chavez, training heavyweights and wonders what might be the missing ingredient in UK fighters and trainers.
Hi Bread. In last week’s mailbag you mentioned the lack of world class trainers as being a possible reason that UK fighters don’t develop into world class fighters. I think you’re right and I think you have intimated previously that you knew something was missing with the British fighters. To me, it’s a case of what makes the British fight scene great, but it also acts as a barrier to individual fighter greatness. Tribalism exists to such a great extent that it transcends into the training. The tribalism in Britain is different to the US. It’s city against city. Region against region – there’s not the racial tribalism - Mexicans, Afro, Caribbean etc you have over there. What we have is a great scene buoyed by the football fans. Especially northern working-class towns where Josh Warrington, Leigh Wood, Jack Catterall can start selling out 25k + arenas for sometimes domestic style fare. The atmosphere at these events can be electric – real hostile and high energy occasions packed out. But mostly, these aren’t boxing fans, these are coked up drunk football fans spilling into the boxing arena. Getting behind their local boy. Maybe Ricky Hatton can be seen as the catalyst and then Eddie Hearn did a great job building up domestic ‘beef’. Lots of UK fighters, who can only be considered average on a world stage, have managed to become very rich and high-profile way above their ‘actual' world status worth. Nathan Cleverly, Tony Bellew, Derick Chisora, Benn Jr, Eubank Jr etc etc. It’s created a great scene but it’s stunted development in both our fighters and our trainers. When you can make a million plus fighting the guy from your rival town, it’s great for a living, but it’s a barrier to pushing on, exposing yourself to different styles. I think it’s why, since Calzaghe, I don’t think we have had many fighters who make great in-fight adjustments. They don’t get exposed to enough styles in their development. Our footballers are the same. Too much, too soon and slightly molly coddled to boot. Trainers are complicit. They can become complacent, and they also develop their own beefs with other trainers. I don’t get that impression from US trainers that’s the case. You have mentioned great trainers such a Naz Richardson that you had the ear of. Can’t see that happening over here. UK is small. And sometimes we are small in our thinking. How easy would it be to create, for want of a better term, excellence centres. Bunches of trainers coming together, sharing their ideas and styles. Bring in coaches and sparring from around the world. Appreciate that training a fighter is a very personal thing – so maybe ‘in camp’ is different. That’s the trainer and his guy, but could you ever envisage something like that working? Just a side note, reaction to Ennis this week has went cold. Podcasts, forums et al. The most worrying word I am hearing is bored. It’s sort of where I am. We are just waiting too long for him to explode. I feel sorry for him, but I also feel like his performances are regressing. He needs the step up to bring out the best in him and quick. For his own sake he might need to act out of character and force the issue. Just my thoughts, certainly don’t want to seem disrespectful to him, and I am rooting for him to be what he is hyped to be, but it feels like he’s missing his shot.
Bread’s Response: I really don’t know why the UK fighters have not ascended to the top of the P4P list. I have never been to the UK to see their training environment. But I do know what I see. And what I see is many elite UK fighters seek out American trainers. People don’t understand how difficult it is to train with a trainer from another state, let alone another country. So when the top UK fighters like Lennox Lewis, Tyson Fury, Naseem Hamed, Ricky Hatton, Amir Khan, Chris Eubank Jr. etc etc all seek out foreign trainers it tells me something. For the exception of Joe Calzaghe and Carl Froch, the best UK fighters of the last 30 years have mostly sought out American trainers. What does that say?
On the other hand, I haven’t seen many American fighters seek out UK trainers. And for the record I think there are some excellent UK trainers. Ben Davison and Shane McGuigan are excellent. And I’m not criticizing UK trainers as a whole, I’m sure they’re some excellent trainers in the UK. I just feel for a place that has that many fighters, that generate some huge amounts of money, they have never had the No. 1 P4P fighter and per capita they don’t produce a lot of legitimate great fighters. I’m just using logic and practicality as to why. It’s not really a criticism, it’s more of an observation.
Hopefully it changes. The UK fans deserve another GREAT fighter. If a fighter is not ready for the criticism, they aren’t ready for the success.
Boots will be okay. He just has to turn the volume down, get back in the lab and get better. He has the talent. He just needs to apply it.
Sup Breadman, Have you ever trained a heavyweight? Would/does a heavyweight require a different way of training or preparation in comparison to lighter fighters? A couple weeks ago you broke down Salvador Sanchez’ style, could you do the same for Evander Holyfield? His style always intrigued me. He seemed to have brawler tendencies despite not having the “one punch” KO power and while having the amateur pedigree. How as a trainer would you counter his style? Hope you and yours are doing well, thank you.
Bread’s Response: I trained a heavyweight a couple of years ago. It was tough because his cardio was poor. He had solid talent but his conditioning and work ethic weren’t on the level. I didn’t ask him to do what the smaller fighters did, but I expected him to be able to do 70% of their workouts. It’s not like a heavyweight can fight less rounds with less minutes. So my logic was simple, if you have to fight the same amount of rounds that the smaller fighters do, your endurance has to be at least 70% of the smaller fighters. It was tough on the heavyweight. We worked together for two fights and it was time to move on.
I’m open to training another heavyweight but their work ethic would have to be better and preferably the heavyweight would be younger. The heavyweight I trained was already in his thirties and he was set in his ways.
Being bigger, means your heart has more mass to maintain. So I don’t expect a man 240lbs to have the cardio of a man 154lbs. But I do expect them to be able to work hard and push through with determination. The next heavyweight I train, if he has motor or work ethic issues, I’m walking away early. It’s difficult to motivate a big man who has conditioning issues.
Evander Holyfield was a versatile hard-nosed boxer-puncher. Holyfield was very physical and his power was underrated. He stopped most of his opponents before he was 30 years old. Holyfield has stoppages over Dwight Qawi, Mike Tyson, Buster Douglas, Michael Moorer, Michael Dokes and Pinklon Thomas. He stopped mostly all of his opponents at cruiserweight. And he dropped Riddick Bowe and Ray Mercer. He also hurt George Foreman badly. I think Holyfield was a tremendous puncher. Especially in combination.
He could fight at every range, pretty much equally well. And he was a vicious counter puncher. He could pretty much do everything if you’re being fair in an assessment. But his flaw was sometimes he seemed to fight without a plan. And he also seemed to get lost at times when he had to be the aggressor at heavyweight. At cruiserweight, he was able to walk down his opponents. But at heavyweight Larry Holmes, Chris Byrd, Lennox Lewis and Riddick Bowe gave him trouble when they boxed him from a distance.
If I were training someone to fight him, I would try to break his bounce rhythm with a jab. Jabbing him in different places. Holyfield was a rhythm fighter and when his rhythm got broken, he wasn’t as spectacular. I would also attack his conditioning. Holyfield would sometimes bounce, get off punches, then visibly suck wind. He was vulnerable in those spots. The problem is, if you got too greedy, he would regroup and rip your head off. So to be exact, break his rhythm with a jab, attack his conditioning but never get too greedy. Sort of how Lennox Lewis fought him. Bowe punished Holyfield more than Lewis did, but Bowe also took way more punishment and I think the punishment ruined Bowe’s prime. Do not get in a war with Holyfield, even if you are 30lbs heavier.
Hi Bread, My brother emailed a couple of weeks ago talking about scoring fights (saying whoever you would least like to be at the end of the round lost the round), and he mentioned something a British commentator, Andy Clarke, said about thinking of each fighter having an “energy bar” that I think got a bit misinterpreted. I believe he meant it more as each fighter has a health bar, and whoever loses more in a round loses the round. Every landed punch will take something off the bar, and the more the punch hurts the fighter the more it takes off. That is to say, if one fighter lands two lighter punches it might be cancelled out by the other fighter's one harder punch. In that way I think it is a really good way of scoring rounds. Also quickly, if Chocolatito were to beat Bam Rodriguez (not saying he will), where would he be historically? Thanks, Sam
Bread’s Response: I remember your brother’s comment. Your comment was more clear. Thanks.
If Chocolatito were to beat Bam he would be the greatest fighter ever under bantamweight. He would also be a top 25-30 fighter ever. I don’t think people realize how difficult a task this would be. Chocolatito is 37 and he has over 50 fights. Bam is destroying Choc’s contemporaries in Estrada, SSR and Cuadras.
Bam is 24 and he may be the best fighter P4P in the world. I have him in the top 10 firmly. I can’t think of another sub bantamweight fighter who has pulled off a potential victory this big in history. Nonito Donaire was very close vs Inoue but he didn’t win. I just don’t think it’s possible. It would be a miracle if Choc saw the final bell. Bam is meaner than he appears to be, he seems to be getting his man strength. And his punishment is constant to the head and body. If Choc takes this fight, his team needs to make sure he gets a solid 7 figure pay day because it will most likely be his last one.
There’s a lot of boxing on this weekend. There’s five championship fights, including an undisputed championship fight and two fights for unified championships. There are also many other highly competitive bouts. That’s without mentioning the sideshow that’s stealing the headlines. Which fight are you most excited for this weekend and why?
Bread’s Response: William Zepeda vs Tevin Farmer has really sparked my interest. I want to see if Zepeda is as good as advertised. And I want to see if Tevin can pull off the upset. I think he fought well vs Muratalla.
Hey Bread, I visited my crystal ball this morning to look into Tyson vs Paul. I wonder if it will make a fool of me Saturday morning! To be honest, I kind of hope it does.... I predict Jake Paul to win. Mike Tyson has two things going for him at this point. He is strong as an Ox and I think the old peak-a-boo style might leave an opening for a bomb early. Could you imagine if Mike landed a bomb early that drains Jake's legs for the next eight rounds or sleeps him? We can hope and wish, but alas I don't bet on wishes. I expect Jake to be reserved and simple early on by using his fresher and younger legs to keep him safe. After Mike's early energy is gone, I just can't see him closing the gap or sustaining anything significant for longer than a few sporadic moments. That is when I would get concerned for Mike....I just envision him standing flat footed, hands up in the centre of the ring making an easy target for a Jake Paul cross or uppercut....Let's hope Mike comes out of this no worse for wear. How do you see it? Can I also get a quick preview on Taylor vs Serrano? I haven't given that prediction any thoughts yet and to be honest, I might not. Just going to sit back and enjoy that one.
Brent from Canada
Bread’s Response: I hope Mike Tyson does not get hurt. I can’t get out of my head how bad he looked in 2005 vs Kevin McBride. McBride is the type of fighter who wouldn’t last 60 seconds with a prime Tyson. For Tyson to be that far gone in 2005, and to now be fighting in 2024 is troubling for me personally.
I’ve seen his workouts and I don’t see the snap or accuracy on his punches that everyone seems to be oohing about. I see some decent speed for a 58 year old man. But not for a professional world class fighter. Tyson’s balance seems a little off and I feel it’s very difficult to have sustained twitchiness as you age.
It’s why Tyson was done as a top fighter after the Holyfield rematch and he was only 31. His style just doesn’t age well. No heavyweight in history under 6’1 had longevity with his style. Marciano and Frazier didn’t and neither has Tyson.
I am a boxing purist and I don’t want to see Tyson take a loss to Jake Paul, if I’m being transparent. But I can’t make a prediction because I just don’t know what lies behind the promotion. I can’t get a grasp on certain things. So I want to keep my opinion to myself because I honestly don’t know some intimate details.
For the record, I’m not suggesting the fight isn’t on the level. Because they trained so hard. You don’t torture your body to fight a fixed fight. So I’m NOT suggesting that at all. But I just don’t know other things about the fight and there is too much to state and I don’t want to dampen the promotion, they have a right to make their money. So let’s say I just hope Tyson comes out of this okay. I expect him to be dangerous early but other than that I have no idea how this plays out.
Taylor vs Serrano is a tough fight to pick. Taylor boxes better but Serrano's punches seem to affect Taylor more than Taylor's punches affect her. I feel like Serrano could've stopped Taylor a few times in their last fight but she just couldn't get the right shot through. But something tells me that Taylor's pedigree will adjust better than Serrano's ruggedness. I don't know why, but I'm picking Taylor by close decision or draw.
Hey Bread, Two of my all time favorite fights: 1. Salvador Sanchez vs Wilfredo Gomez. 2. Julio Cesar Chavez vs Meldrick Taylor. I think those two fights epitomize both their greatness. Sanchez, on that night, put on a master clinic on defense, blocking, slipping as well as a granite chin against one of the most dangerous punchers of all time. He showed his full arsenal that night. As did a prime Chavez vs. Meldrick Taylor. Chavez also put on a clinic , slipping and rolling while coming forward, all the while Taylor was throwing lightning fast combos at him. There was a sequence in the middle rounds where Taylor throws like an eight-punch combo at him and Chavez ducks and rolls and slips every one. They had very different styles but both had incredible defense but were not defensive fighters, they were offensive minded. I know you’ve broken their styles down before but I’ve never heard you break down their defense? Thanks, Ray in S.D.
Bread’s Response: I always equate defense to how it’s applied in a style. I never thought it was fair to compare the defense of a KO artist who comes forward to a slick fighter who fights backing up for the most part who has a very low KO percentage. For example, you have to use context if you compare Mike Tyson’s defense to Pernell Whitaker’s.
I thought Sanchez and Chavez both had excellent defense for their styles. I actually think Chavez’s defense is a little better. But Sanchez was a better counter puncher. Chavez was good at catching shots and smothering the opponent’s work. In his prime, his defense was one of the reasons his chin was so revered. He didn’t get hit as clean as it appeared. Chavez had tremendous come-forward defense.
Sanchez didn’t press as much as Chavez so he gave you more time to line him up with big shots. But like Chavez, Sanchez had a tungsten chin. Sanchez sort of blocked and slid from punches. And he had this neat counter right hand, where he would drop down low, raise his left hand, and shoot a counter right hand over the top. That was his signature defensive move.
Some fighter’s defense lies in their counter punching, like Juan Manuel Marquez. I say Sanchez’s defense lied there whereas Chavez could play defense a little better without countering as much. Which indicates he had better natural reflexes.
Hello Breadman, What is the best plan going forward for Boots Ennis? He has hit the welterweight division at exactly the wrong time. The stars are all gone. And you’re right about the guys at 140 waiting on Boots to leave to move up. It is like Boots is in no man’s land. It is just unbelievable. I looked at the careers of Oscar De La Hoya and SRL and what they accomplished at age 27. Boots doesn’t have a top-tier fight yet and his title was not won in the ring. Something has to give for this man. As fans of Boots, we are missing his best years. He doesn’t have the charisma of SRL. But some could be developed. Public speaking lessons as well as getting aggressive in calling out fighters that won’t fight him. What his management and promotion are doing now is not working. This looks like the blueprint to mismanage and ruin a great fighter’s career. If they have to overpay, then do it, if it is the only way. Right now, Boots might be the best fighter in the world. But only hardcore fight fans know his name. Thank You, J.B.
Bread’s Response: I think it’s simple. Get Boots, Ryan Garcia, Conor Benn or a unification fight NEXT at 147. If it doesn’t happen, then he has to move up and fight the best available fighter at 154.
The pressures of fighting Karen in a rematch in his hometown was not the best move although I understand it. Boots’s first fight at home was a tremendous success. And the IBF mandated the fight, so I get why they made the fight. But Boots just beat Karen in January of 2023. For him to be forced to fight him again in Nov of 2024 was counterproductive to Boots’s career arc. That was a fast turnaround. Hopefully Boots is back in the ring by the spring of 2025.
Hi Bread, Hope you’re well. A few notes and questions :1) Karen is way better than people think. A real spoiler. But he was on, tough as nails and confident. I think he gives fits/outpoints most 147 elites. Ps: Imagine being him and having two shots… at Boots. How weird. Is he just a bad stylistic match up? Way less talented but always staying in there and never too overwhelmed. Very poised and looks simple but is actually extremely well rounded. 2) Defense: For years, I have seen Ennis eat shots. Again, who cares if it’s on purpose. I mean, it’s not ideal but if you really don’t respect your opponent and aim at stopping him, why not? The question is, at this point do you think it’s a deficiency or just him not caring? Do you think he’d play it a bit more careful against Stanionis or the heavy hitters at 154? 3) Boots is disciplined and lives the life. But I can imagine it must be hard to be such an overwhelming favorite and get motivated to beat a guy you won 12 rounds against when you are seeing many guys of your generation blowing up. Could it be part of it? 4) Did the last two performances slightly affect your view on him? Nothing concerning? 5) Do you think he would still be favored vs Tim Tszyu, Fundora, Bohachuk, Ortiz, Madrimov? And even with Crawford? I personally still see him the same but not a fan of fighters eating too many free shots though. Cheers, Diego
Bread’s Response:
1) I think Karen is very good. Tricky, well rounded and tough as nails. But I don’t want to overrate a fighter after losing 20 rounds out of 24. I don’t know if he can just fight Boots, or he can perform that well vs everyone else. We have to be careful with that. Razor Ruddock made his bones in losing to Mike Tyson. And when he was matched with Lennox Lewis directly after Tyson he was KOd in two rounds. I’m curious to see what Karen can do with another fighter. I’ve seen this movie before and the outcome has not always been predictable. Let's see. I'm curious.
2) I’ve seen Boots get hit before in singular moments. He wasn’t losing rounds or getting hit with more than one shot at a time. But in his last two fights, I feel that he was hit more than even he would’ve liked. In his fight with Karen, if you’re honest, he was hit too much.
I believe he has good defense, when he applies it. But I also believe he’s in love with his offense. I don’t think he has poor defense. I think he neglects it when he’s in kill mode. He’s going to have to figure out a way to be defensively responsible while being in kill mode which is not easy. Even great defensive fighters like Floyd Mayweather and Pernell Whitaker, were hit often in kill mode. See Floyd’s fight vs Emanuel Augustus and Whitaker’s fight vs Diosbelys Hurtado.
3) Boots said he would be better vs better opposition. The only way we can know for sure is to put him in with better opposition. I believe him, but they have to make the fights first.
4) I still believe he’s the goods but in full transparency the fight vs Avanesyan wasn’t a big deal to me. In the last fight vs Karen I didn’t like him getting hit, while he was punching. Karen was timing him while he was punching and that’s when a fighter is most vulnerable. So that’s an issue. Let’s see how it plays out.
5) I would favor Boots over everyone you named other than Crawford. I don’t have a favorite if he fights Crawford until I see how he looks at 154. That’s a very close fight, despite what everyone is saying. Both Boots and Crawford had tough fights in their last fights. Both got hit. And we have to see if it was just them dealing with the rhythm of Karen and Madrimov or more to it.
Hi Breadman, thanks for your insights. Please rank these British and Irish super middleweights and share any thoughts you wish on their careers. James Degale, Carl Froch, George Groves, Joe Calzaghe, Chris Eubank Snr, Nigel Benn, Steve Collins, Billy Joe Saunders, Callum Smith and Robin Reid. Just in case no one asks, how do you see Taylor Vs Serrano playing out? Cheers, Darns, Marrakech
Bread’s Response:
- Joe Calzaghe
- Carl Froch
- Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank Sr. are a tie in my opinion. I thought Benn won their rematch and obviously Eubank won the 1st one. Eubank had the excellent title defense numbers but Benn beat two standout American champions in Barkley and McClellan. This is a dead even historical ranking if there ever was one.
- Steve Collins did beat Eubank and Benn but both were well past their best. The victories were excellent but I think they had more to do with timing than they had to do with ability.
- James Degale
- Callum Smith
- George Groves
- Robin Reid. He held a prime Calzaghe to a split decision and he had resiliency after his losses.
- Billy Joe Saunders, quit in his biggest fight and disappeared. Each one of the other guys handled adversity better hence the order of the rankings.
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