Luck McCarty vs Jack Johnson

[QueensburyRules]

- -JJOHNSON had fled for Paris and looking for another white guy.

21 yr old Luck officially 15-0, 15 KOs and holder of the showy white title with better results with common opposition, but more importantly, in between fight he was headlining in packed wild west shows, big stuff and big biz.

Johnson wired his mgr Billy McCarty who accepted immediately, but after the Pelkey match scheduled in a few days in Tommy Burns' new Canadian arena.

Alas, in one of those inexplicable Luck died in a fight that had scarcely started. Speculation has it he had been Thrown from his horse during a solo foray into the Rocky Mountains between training.

Doubtless the bout was to be held in JJ new home of Paris.

History might have been rewritten from what we know today. A few years later another cowboy relieved JJ of his belt in a huge upset.

Poor Pelkey had done literally nothing, but was hauled off to jail on murder charges and had to go into heavy debt defending himself and died a long drawn out tragedy. Burns' arena burned to the ground the very next day, a tale so bewildering that The Bard hisself would've been flabbergasted.

[billeau2]

- -JJOHNSON had fled for Paris and looking for another white guy.

21 yr old Luck officially 15-0, 15 KOs and holder of the showy white title with better results with common opposition, but more importantly, in between fight he was headlining in packed wild west shows, big stuff and big biz.

Johnson wired his mgr Billy McCarty who accepted immediately, but after the Pelkey match scheduled in a few days in Tommy Burns' new Canadian arena.

Alas, in one of those inexplicable Luck died in a fight that had scarcely started. Speculation has it he had been Thrown from his horse during a solo foray into the Rocky Mountains between training.

Doubtless the bout was to be held in JJ new home of Paris.

History might have been rewritten from what we know today. A few years later another cowboy relieved JJ of his belt in a huge upset.

Poor Pelkey had done literally nothing, but was hauled off to jail on murder charges and had to go into heavy debt defending himself and died a long drawn out tragedy. Burns' arena burned to the ground the very next day, a tale so bewildering that The Bard hisself would've been flabbergasted.

Who was Pelkey? Johnson was a flash point. Jack London hated him with a passion. So, here was this man's man (London) strevedore, writer, working class hero for the rights of the oppressed... writing books about animals that adults and child alike could read and relate to, and writing socialist tomes, that predate 1984.

this same man is calling Johnson horrible names, and imploring a member of the White Race to end Johnson in the ring. Its just crazy. London was a major influence on bringing Jeffries out of retirement to fight when Big jeff, a geniunely nice guy who could bring it, should have been allowed to retire in peace.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Awesome thread!


Looks like Boxing was sadly robbed of one of its greatest champions.

If McCarty (isn't that fun to say?
Probably it was pronounced McCaRRRRty) wasn't ready then, he'd certainly do better than Johnson did against Choyenski. It seems it was only a matter of time before he was champion.

It never seemed right to me that Johnson was champ. Like, this is really the best the country had at this time!? There had to be someone - if not 3 or 4 guys- who was better.

This was the missing puzzle piece.

Great thread, QR!

[QueensburyRules]

- -Luck grew up as part of an Indian snake medicine show before boxing. As a boy he was the keeper of the rattlesnakes used for venom extraction needed for the cures.

A magical life cut short by a tragic death as befits any young god of the pantheon.

[Rusty Tromboni]

- -Luck grew up as part of an Indian snake medicine show before boxing. As a boy he was the keeper of the rattlesnakes used for venom extraction needed for the cures.

A magical life cut short by a tragic death as befits any young god of the pantheon.

Truly.

He died from bucking a mustang. What's more manly than that.

Like my own grandfather and so many legends of the sport, he was born to Irish immigrants. The country, ostensibly, didn't want them. They were brought in to do the work no one else would. And they rose to embody the greatest spirit of the nation. Like a true hero, he died before his time.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Who was Pelkey? Johnson was a flash point. Jack London hated him with a passion. So, here was this man's man (London) strevedore, writer, working class hero for the rights of the oppressed... writing books about animals that adults and child alike could read and relate to, and writing socialist tomes, that predate 1984.

this same man is calling Johnson horrible names, and imploring a member of the White Race to end Johnson in the ring. Its just crazy. London was a major influence on bringing Jeffries out of retirement to fight when Big jeff, a geniunely nice guy who could bring it, should have been allowed to retire in peace.

Isn't that obviously the connection?

Blacks would settle for less and do a lesser job. Clearly that was infuriating to poor Whites who were trying to feed their kids.

My dad came to Philadelphia from ******ia. He was appalled by how Blacks were treated. Especially in Italian neighborhood where Blacks weren't safe to go.

We couldn't get through to him that that treatment started in the South because in that South Blacks weren't treated THAT way.

But in the North and out West they were seen as competition.

[billeau2]

Isn't that obviously the connection?

Blacks would settle for less and do a lesser job. Clearly that was infuriating to poor Whites who were trying to feed their kids.

My dad came to Philadelphia from ******ia. He was appalled by how Blacks were treated. Especially in Italian neighborhood where Blacks weren't safe to go.

We couldn't get through to him that that treatment started in the South because in that South Blacks weren't treated THAT way.

But in the North and out West they were seen as competition.

What?!!!
First of all anyone on the bottom rung of the ladder would do what they could...Remember all the signs in civil was era New York "Irish need not apply?" As a matter of fact the Blacks and Irish were kind of chummy...The "Jig" was a combination of irish folk dance and African Dances. The big thing that divided them was the obligation imposed by the Civil War. The Irish had just gotten to the city and did not want to go die for a cause...Alot of the Africans were ready to go to war for freedom.

Blacks were one of the most mobile of the groups after the war. They worked everywhere, North, West... As a matter of fact I often think to myself...Where my wife is from Opelousas, is a Cajun CReole community. And when you speak to many Black families they trace a point of origination to Louisiana. This is from the slave ships and New Orleans.

I just do not know where you get these ideas about Black people... I grew up in A Black and Spanish neighborhood and I don't remember a group of near do wells, with things falling apart all over the place... "oh you know its just the standards, that sink will have to be repaired again...those Black people!" It just does not work that way.

When I was a kid you had a lot of German supers, then they became Irish and eventually Puerto Rican. Nobody was "better." The only people I was who ever did lesser jobs were people who felt self entitled. Like Pelosi. Like many in the communist countries who did not have to do a thing and got a paycheck.

Blacks in the North were not seen as competition. They were seen as lowering property values Russ. And people would leave neighborhoods because of this perception. Unfortunately it was true...and not the fault of the Black people. It was the fact that the banks would not loan to Blacks. The proof is that when it was demanded that banks do so, many middle class black areas prospered. The practice was called "redlining."

Banks still persist to this day in doing much the same: A car can be bought by a scoundrel despite the fact that it loses most of its equity the first day off the lot, yet banks in this country, with a fed that is supposed to help people, cannot loan on a home as the underlying asset. So Joe gumbats can chase a bad car loan down and find a way to drag a car back...and still make a boatload of money, but banks cannot find a home that cannot be moved, and resell it if payments are not made.

Put the blame where it belongs. The people your dad was talking about in Philly, as in New York, were rough, violent and bold. Many in these working class Italian areas were also racists. Not all... Many. They did these things because they COULD. Ever hear about Howard Beach?

[Rusty Tromboni]

What?!!!
First of all anyone on the bottom rung of the ladder would do what they could...Remember all the signs in civil was era New York "Irish need not apply?" As a matter of fact the Blacks and Irish were kind of chummy...The "Jig" was a combination of irish folk dance and African Dances. The big thing that divided them was the obligation imposed by the Civil War. The Irish had just gotten to the city and did not want to go die for a cause...Alot of the Africans were ready to go to war for freedom.

Blacks were one of the most mobile of the groups after the war. They worked everywhere, North, West... As a matter of fact I often think to myself...Where my wife is from Opelousas, is a Cajun CReole community. And when you speak to many Black families they trace a point of origination to Louisiana. This is from the slave ships and New Orleans.

I just do not know where you get these ideas about Black people... I grew up in A Black and Spanish neighborhood and I don't remember a group of near do wells, with things falling apart all over the place... "oh you know its just the standards, that sink will have to be repaired again...those Black people!" It just does not work that way.

When I was a kid you had a lot of German supers, then they became Irish and eventually Puerto Rican. Nobody was "better." The only people I was who ever did lesser jobs were people who felt self entitled. Like Pelosi. Like many in the communist countries who did not have to do a thing and got a paycheck.

Blacks in the North were not seen as competition. They were seen as lowering property values Russ. And people would leave neighborhoods because of this perception. Unfortunately it was true...and not the fault of the Black people. It was the fact that the banks would not loan to Blacks. The proof is that when it was demanded that banks do so, many middle class black areas prospered. The practice was called "redlining."

Banks still persist to this day in doing much the same: A car can be bought by a scoundrel despite the fact that it loses most of its equity the first day off the lot, yet banks in this country, with a fed that is supposed to help people, cannot loan on a home as the underlying asset. So Joe gumbats can chase a bad car loan down and find a way to drag a car back...and still make a boatload of money, but banks cannot find a home that cannot be moved, and resell it if payments are not made.

Put the blame where it belongs. The people your dad was talking about in Philly, as in New York, were rough, violent and bold. Many in these working class Italian areas were also racists. Not all... Many. They did these things because they COULD. Ever hear about Howard Beach?

That's exactly the kinda stuff my father would have said.

And like him, you'respeaking from YOUR experience.

My father didn't really get my mother's parents. My grandmother was from a traditional Slovak community in the coal region, my grandfather grew up in a blue collar neighborhood in a big industrial city. They worked really hard, and took great pride in everything they did. But they weren't wealthy and they weren't particularly accomplished. My mother and her brothers all tried to escape that, if you will. And my dad just had this idea that if you work hard, you'll make lots and lots of money. Generals who aren't slogging it out in the trneches have a very different idea about war than their soldiers. I am not saying you are like that, but again, you can't put your perspective on folks who grew up pre-WWII in an industrial nation.

That's who Jack London was writing for.

When I left South Jersey as a kid I had a fairly rose-tinted picture ofthe world. I didn't understand my grandparents, either, despite being very close to them. Being a little better off than most folks in the Mong Valley though, I kinda got a picture of how life works for the working class. In ways that they couldn't understand themselves. Teaching also reinforced my notion that America is comfortable not knowing itself.

I may not agree with London today in 2020, just as you wouldn't have in 1980, but I totally understand why he said what he said and who he was looking out for.

[QueensburyRules]

- -Luck claimed the Native American heritage of healing powers of his ol'man which is where he got his traveling performance act from.

In 1913 Johnson entered into a period of decline that he could never stop, so he would've been in the last vestiges of his prime while Luck was just starting his.

That almost always translates into a great fight with his pop, White Eagle and his troop putting on a show and selling medicine between fights, probably the biggest fight gate in history in its time.

[billeau2]

That's exactly the kinda stuff my father would have said.

And like him, you'respeaking from YOUR experience.

My father didn't really get my mother's parents. My grandmother was from a traditional Slovak community in the coal region, my grandfather grew up in a blue collar neighborhood in a big industrial city. They worked really hard, and took great pride in everything they did. But they weren't wealthy and they weren't particularly accomplished. My mother and her brothers all tried to escape that, if you will. And my dad just had this idea that if you work hard, you'll make lots and lots of money. Generals who aren't slogging it out in the trneches have a very different idea about war than their soldiers. I am not saying you are like that, but again, you can't put your perspective on folks who grew up pre-WWII in an industrial nation.

That's who Jack London was writing for.

When I left South Jersey as a kid I had a fairly rose-tinted picture ofthe world. I didn't understand my grandparents, either, despite being very close to them. Being a little better off than most folks in the Mong Valley though, I kinda got a picture of how life works for the working class. In ways that they couldn't understand themselves. Teaching also reinforced my notion that America is comfortable not knowing itself.

I may not agree with London today in 2020, just as you wouldn't have in 1980, but I totally understand why he said what he said and who he was looking out for.

My dad believed in that idea about "IF" you work hard "THEN" but actually I strongly rebelled against that. Mind you, I worked my @33 off! I was selling papers at 430 am while going to junior HIgh School, and working when I could through college as an RA, cleaning toilets in the morning...

I taught my kids something I found out. Work to learn, and work to be paid for your labor...But always strive to own your business and to generate passive income. That is the only reason I work...A lot of people wanted me as a chef and my condition always was: "I will train the kitchen, and put the work in IF we make the restaurant a chain." I did not want to work 80 hours a week for peanuts and I did not want to deal with partners who had no skin in the game, aside from money. Or, as one of my favorite mentors in the kitchen once put it... " Partners are to dance with."

Jack London was an iconoclast Rusty. You make a great point about his audience, I grant you that. Is it a form of cultural blindness to say all men are created equal except those? Or, in London's case, when you write about explotation of the worker, of men in general under corporate type governance (similar to corporations) is it really not hypocritical to make race such an issue? Perhaps not for the times?