Marciano is not a top 10 ATG, not even top 50

[frankenfrank]

If you're going to make an argument against Marciano atleast state things that are true. Marciano beat every opponent who was put in front of him, including greats like Moore, Charles and Walcott, who were not way over 40 and still had fight left in them, even if not arguably at the peak of their boxing careers. And he most certainly did not retire due to Patterson.

What a good example of double standards :

were not way over 40 and still had fight left in them

Weird you forgot Louis.
Weirder when you all claim Tyson , Terry Norris , Rid**** Bowe , Muhammad Ali , Joe Frazier , Jerry Quarry , Gerry Cooney were all shot at 30-32 .
But Schmelling , Liston , and a few more of your favorite fighters' victims , they were far from shot and had plenty'O'Fight left in them by that age.

[NChristo]

What a good example of double standards :
Weird you forgot Louis.
Weirder when you all claim Tyson , Terry Norris , Rid**** Bowe , Muhammad Ali , Joe Frazier , Jerry Quarry , Gerry Cooney were all shot at 30-32 .
But Schmelling , Liston , and a few more of your favorite fighters' victims , they were far from shot and had plenty'O'Fight left in them by that age.

Are you trying to say that all boxers age the same ?...

[frankenfrank]

If by "decent" you mean one of the two or three most powerful right hands ever then I'll agree with you.

WTF ?
Shavers , Foreman , Louis , Bowe , Lewis , Wladimir Klitschko : these are a 80% consensus more dangerous right hand.
Those who will disagree about Lewis , Klitschko and Bowe would still include
Baer and Schmelling above Marciano.
McCall and Rahman also had a better right hand even if not consensus , and
I promise you there are at least 10 more in addition to all of these names.

So how did you get to only "one of the two or three most powerful right hands ever" ?

But this is a history forum , idiotic claims like this can check undetected , as long as they are claimed about a deceased (for more than 20 years) fighter.

Then they really enter a special section of the HOF.

No one would have argued about such claims in such a forum.
As idiotic as it comes.
At least no one who knows about boxing.

I agree he's not a top 10 p4p ATG but he's most certainly top 50. I have him at #17 on my all-time p4p top 100 list.

And to the topic : he is a top 50 all time P4P , top 5 LHW , top 15 CW ,
top 70 HW.

[frankenfrank]

Are you trying to say that all boxers age the same ?...

No , but more same than what you think.

[Forza]

A wins a win, but come on. I could beat up ali right now but that doesn't mean **** because hes an old man with a disease.

[StarshipTrooper]

No , but more same than what you think.

In perusing the posts from this thread I'm left with one question: Is it even REMOTELY possible for you to make a post that ISN'T ******ed? :rolleyes9:

Poet

[Spartacus Sully]

WTF ?
Shavers , Foreman , Louis , Bowe , Lewis , Wladimir Klitschko : these are a 80% consensus more dangerous right hand.
Those who will disagree about Lewis , Klitschko and Bowe would still include
Baer and Schmelling above Marciano.
McCall and Rahman also had a better right hand even if not consensus , and
I promise you there are at least 10 more in addition to all of these names.

So how did you get to only "one of the two or three most powerful right hands ever" ?

marcianos right swing at only 190 some pounds was much more powerful than anything any of them ever threw. he might not have had the best right straight but very few people even throw right swings let alone a right swing like his. making it maybe not the most versatile but definitely one of the top most powerful right hands.

[frankenfrank]

marcianos right swing at only 190 some pounds was much more powerful than anything any of them ever threw. he might not have had the best right straight but very few people even throw right swings let alone a right swing like his. making it maybe not the most versatile but definitely one of the top most powerful right hands.

Might be so on a P4P basis , but I thought the argument about it is on a (HW) H2H basis.

[Spartacus Sully]

Might be so on a P4P basis , but I thought the argument about it is on a (HW) H2H basis.

well yeah, my argument is based on the mechanics of different punches.

with a swing there is more distance to travel allowing for more time to accelerate to a higher top speed assuming foreman and Marciano both accelerated at the same rate (which they didnt) and we assume the swing takes 25% (like .07 seconds) longer to swing then a tight right hook putting an average right hook at 20 mph we can assume a right swing would be around 25 mph.

as kinetic energy or the energy of motion is joules = 1/2m*v^2 even a 50 lb diffrence wouldnt make up for a 5 mph diffrence in speed.

even more so though i dont think the diffrence is only 5 mph's marciano really put his arm out there and brought it in in the last moment collapsing the arc and getting some insane speed almost like the tip of a whip exploding with his full body weight.

[frankenfrank]

well yeah, my argument is based on the mechanics of different punches.

with a swing there is more distance to travel allowing for more time to accelerate to a higher top speed assuming foreman and Marciano both accelerated at the same rate (which they didnt) and we assume the swing takes 25% (like .07 seconds) longer to swing then a tight right hook putting an average right hook at 20 mph we can assume a right swing would be around 25 mph.

as kinetic energy or the energy of motion is joules = 1/2m*v^2 even a 50 lb diffrence wouldnt make up for a 5 mph diffrence in speed.

even more so though i dont think the diffrence is only 5 mph's marciano really put his arm out there and brought it in in the last moment collapsing the arc and getting some insane speed almost like the tip of a whip exploding with his full body weight.

But there is another factor to it , the push behind the punch , after the punch has landed and what you said is done there is an additional push behind the punch which is what is called the commitment to it , and this is what explains some of Foreman's punches success , whenever he committed to his punches , he could push harder than Marciano because he was so much bigger , more mass and power behind his punches + sometimes he could punch down which is harder in general than punching up as gravity is a factor too.