Sinden Lightguns

[Marchegiano]

I got a pair, they came in about a week ago. If you're happy with any improvement over IR set ups, yeah, Sinden is better than an Aimtrak, and loads better than a wiimote but it's pretty unsteady and inaccurate still.

Still to this day your best bet is a classic CRT and real lightgun.

It's a promising gimmick though and could still get there, it's just not there yet.

[Anthony342]

So are these light guns that work on HDTVs?

[Marchegiano]

So are these light guns that work on HDTVs?

Yup

Mine is black because Red and Blue are for nerds.

I didn't watch dude's full review because I felt like I got the gist. I feel about the same, just not as excited by them as he is.

[Anthony342]

Yup

Mine is black because Red and Blue are for nerds.

I didn't watch dude's full review because I felt like I got the gist. I feel about the same, just not as excited by them as he is.

I take it this means someday we won't need CRTs for old school games? I hear they still help for some old 8 bit games in terms of graphics slow down though, like platform games (Super Mario Brothers) or ones that require timing (Mike Tyson's Punch Out/Punch Out).

Red and blue are also supposed to be safer, so cops don't think they're real and shoot at you, but okay lol.

[Marchegiano]

I take it this means someday we won't need CRTs for old school games? I hear they still help for some old 8 bit games in terms of graphics slow down though, like platform games (Super Mario Brothers) or ones that require timing (Mike Tyson's Punch Out/Punch Out).

Red and blue are also supposed to be safer, so cops don't think they're real and shoot at you, but okay lol.

CRT will probably be around a while longer for speed. I'm glad you mentioned because that's about my main gripe. These cats keep playing the same games they were playing so they know about where the enemy will be popping up at and they can make the gun look more competent than it is. I don't mean to say they do it on purpose just that's what seems to be happening

If I play Area51, Terminator, or House of the Dead the gun will look just fine because I basically know those games but if I play say Corspe Killer of SegaCD then I'm a bit boned even though it's even an easier game. Duck Hunt is Duck Hun easy until about round 7 or 8 then you really need to know the duck paths because you don't have time to adjust.

Basically. You've your source, hardware, emu, makes no difference really, it's putting out a video feed, your display has to process it first then display it, and then the cameras on the gun have to process what they see, make logic for the mouse pointer out of it, and adjust the mouse position so your display can process and make the change.

This is all nano seconds but you can notice it.

Conversely CRTs do not process they simply output. Lightguns do not process, they just shoot a laser. It's exact and instant. If a light gun was a mouse pointer there would be no mouse trail, it'd just pop up where you pointed. With this HDTV+CamGun setup processing is noticeable and comes in the form of mouse trailing.

For authenticity there's really no way to match what's happening in a non-lightgun game like say Mario. Mario slows down during bullet levels because NES can only handle about 8 sprites on screen at a time. You can mimic this with an emu of course but given the machine slows down but the display doesn't there's a timing issue. In realtime the CRT is displaying the image at the speed the NES feeds it. In HDTV's they have to process that slowdown imaging making it just ever so slightly actually slower. With an EMU you can get the slowdown nixed out but then in those places you've turned a known slowdown into a bullet hell and it'll muck your timing for jumps and stuff. If you've old Mario down real well and like to show that off you probably still rock a classic NES and CRT and have no intentions to change it anytime soon. Emulators have come a long way and tbh I've hardly pushed MESEN so maybe it can handle it but getting those bits of uniqueness right where the devs used the limitations of tech back then to their advantage, will probably take another decade or so before folks say they can't feel or notice the difference.

I've never been good enough for a CRT to matter to me outside of gun games myself but from the technical standpoint, yes, they have a point.

This is also why I say it's probably best if y'all wait. This is a fantastic proof-of-concept but that's all I'd call it if I made it. I expect the firmware to be updated quite a bit before these really take off.

[Anthony342]

CRT will probably be around a while longer for speed. I'm glad you mentioned because that's about my main gripe. These cats keep playing the same games they were playing so they know about where the enemy will be popping up at and they can make the gun look more competent than it is. I don't mean to say they do it on purpose just that's what seems to be happening

If I play Area51, Terminator, or House of the Dead the gun will look just fine because I basically know those games but if I play say Corspe Killer of SegaCD then I'm a bit boned even though it's even an easier game. Duck Hunt is Duck Hun easy until about round 7 or 8 then you really need to know the duck paths because you don't have time to adjust.

Basically. You've your source, hardware, emu, makes no difference really, it's putting out a video feed, your display has to process it first then display it, and then the cameras on the gun have to process what they see, make logic for the mouse pointer out of it, and adjust the mouse position so your display can process and make the change.

This is all nano seconds but you can notice it.

Conversely CRTs do not process they simply output. Lightguns do not process, they just shoot a laser. It's exact and instant. If a light gun was a mouse pointer there would be no mouse trail, it'd just pop up where you pointed. With this HDTV+CamGun setup processing is noticeable and comes in the form of mouse trailing.

For authenticity there's really no way to match what's happening in a non-lightgun game like say Mario. Mario slows down during bullet levels because NES can only handle about 8 sprites on screen at a time. You can mimic this with an emu of course but given the machine slows down but the display doesn't there's a timing issue. In realtime the CRT is displaying the image at the speed the NES feeds it. In HDTV's they have to process that slowdown imaging making it just ever so slightly actually slower. With an EMU you can get the slowdown nixed out but then in those places you've turned a known slowdown into a bullet hell and it'll muck your timing for jumps and stuff. If you've old Mario down real well and like to show that off you probably still rock a classic NES and CRT and have no intentions to change it anytime soon. Emulators have come a long way and tbh I've hardly pushed MESEN so maybe it can handle it but getting those bits of uniqueness right where the devs used the limitations of tech back then to their advantage, will probably take another decade or so before folks say they can't feel or notice the difference.

I've never been good enough for a CRT to matter to me outside of gun games myself but from the technical standpoint, yes, they have a point.

This is also why I say it's probably best if y'all wait. This is a fantastic proof-of-concept but that's all I'd call it if I made it. I expect the firmware to be updated quite a bit before these really take off.

So you're saying for now, stick with the CRT. Yeah, I've heard this is why retro gamers keep around at least 1 or 2 CRT TVs around. I have 2 big ones and at least 1 smaller one stored somewhere from the 90s and early 2000s. They still work great for NES, SNES, PS1 and PS2 titles. Anything after that, I'd say HD is the way to go.

[Marchegiano]

So you're saying for now, stick with the CRT. Yeah, I've heard this is why retro gamers keep around at least 1 or 2 CRT TVs around. I have 2 big ones and at least 1 smaller one stored somewhere from the 90s and early 2000s. They still work great for NES, SNES, PS1 and PS2 titles. Anything after that, I'd say HD is the way to go.

Yeah, all the old stuff up to ps2 sounds about perfect to me.