anyone notice a pattern with wilder

[Idunnoshet]

I try and stay out of the whole AJ / Wilder debates because it gets tiresome .
I doubt either AJ or Wilder are afraid to fight the other. They are both Fighters .

I see Alot of emotional responses when I read the comments .
Just seems like the AJ side is always with the childish name calling .

And before you go crucifying me . I'm a fan of Both AJ and Wilder and have my reasons why either one can win when they fight .

[Curt Henning]

I try and stay out of the whole AJ / Wilder debates because it gets tiresome .
I doubt either AJ or Wilder are afraid to fight the other. They are both Fighters .

I see Alot of emotional responses when I read the comments .
Just seems like the AJ side is always with the childish name calling .

I don't think either guy is literally "afraid" either

I think AJs people are afraid of losing golden goose/cash cow....as having AJ wields hearn some power and it allows him to bargain/leverage his other fighters....."hey DAZN u want AJ on your app...you buy my other fights"....without AJ on top of the division hearn doesn't have much power in the sport globally

I think wilders people want to maximize their payday....not by marinating...but by making it ppv and not DAZN

its all money and business on either side...I don't like hearn but I don't think AJ is legit scared or unwilling

[Idunnoshet]

I don't think either guy is literally "afraid" either

I think AJs people are afraid of losing golden goose/cash cow....as having AJ wields hearn some power and it allows him to bargain/leverage his other fighters....."hey DAZN u want AJ on your app...you buy my other fights"....without AJ on top of the division hearn doesn't have much power in the sport globally

I think wilders people want to maximize their payday....not by marinating...but by making it ppv and not DAZN

its all money and business on either side...I don't like hearn but I don't think AJ is legit scared or unwilling

I agree with your point about Hearn being worried about AJ losing . Which I think Was the main reason the fight was being stalled .
Yet at the same time . It seems like Wilder has a " balls in my court now " mentality as of late . With his talk about having plenty of opponents without facing AJ . I understand he was frustrated by Hearns B.S . But I wish he'd show the same hunger to fight AJ that he had a year ago .

[Curt Henning]

I agree with your point about Hearn being worried about AJ losing . Which I think Was the main reason the fight was being stalled .
Yet at the same time . It seems like Wilder has a " balls in my court now " mentality as of late . With his talk about having plenty of opponents without facing AJ . I understand he was frustrated by Hearns B.S . But I wish he'd show the same hunger to fight AJ that he had a year ago .

Floyd kinda displayed the same attitude towards pac after arum jerked him around for awhile

I think wilder realizes he can build himself up hence the "******** on myself"....meaning he will take fights without worrying about a loss derailing the AJ payday

hearn jerked him around more than once...its probably frustrating....I don't think wilder is worried...if he was he would have jumped for AJ...hes not gonna do that again and I don't blame him really.....I do wish the fight would come off sooner than later...but I understand his stance currently....I think next year is still good...id prefer it early in the year...april...but if its later I wouldn't complain...anything beyond 2020 is messed up by both sides

[Curt Henning]

I agree with your point about Hearn being worried about AJ losing . Which I think Was the main reason the fight was being stalled .
Yet at the same time . It seems like Wilder has a " balls in my court now " mentality as of late . With his talk about having plenty of opponents without facing AJ . I understand he was frustrated by Hearns B.S . But I wish he'd show the same hunger to fight AJ that he had a year ago .

thing to remember about the Floyd/pac comparison to is this

at the time arum was toying with Floyd about making the fight....they were basically both a-sides....looking at a 50-50 split....things eventually panned out and pac ended up being a b-side(although one may argue being a b-side 5 years later paid as well, if not, better than being 50 percent 5 years earlier)

wilder was clear b-side in 2018...by a good margin....and hearn was actually toying with a b-side that could potentially work his way up to being real close to 50-50

[Idunnoshet]

thing to remember about the Floyd/pac comparison to is this

at the time arum was toying with Floyd about making the fight....they were basically both a-sides....looking at a 50-50 split....things eventually panned out and pac ended up being a b-side(although one may argue being a b-side 5 years later paid as well, if not, better than being 50 percent 5 years earlier)

wilder was clear b-side in 2018...by a good margin....and hearn was actually toying with a b-side that could potentially work his way up to being real close to 50-50

I agree . Hearn did tell Wilder to build up his status . Doubt he thought it would actually happen .

[Curt Henning]

I agree . Hearn did tell Wilder to build up his status . Doubt he thought it would actually happen .

yup...its a direct quote AJ fans choose to ignore.....hearn did tell him "build up your profile"...and now wilder is doing it and theyre mad at him for taking the advice of their lord! lol

[WOKnWOH]

wilder is the b-side...clearly...b-sides don't make offers

the one offer they made was done after AJ said, on camera, that a specific number was what it would take....and then wilders team came up with that number and proved they had it for AJ

otherwise hearn made lowball flat fee offers....one that was 12.5 to fight in the UK..and wilder actually accepted provided hearn could guarantee it in 2018....hearn couldn't/wouldn't and when they asked he said "april 2019"...which was the one thing wilder had asked not to happen lol

the "most money" is a projected number...we all know that projections are rarely 100 percent accurate...sometimes things fall below expectations...sometimes they surpass....but trust this...both teams have done their market research in both markets...in the US and UK...awhile back there were even articles where wilders team actually reached out to frank warren to do market research and projections on a fight in the UK.....both teams have estimations in mind

but I can tell you this...the momentum for this fight is building huge....and it will sell well on us ppv even at 80-100 a pop....it doesn't belong on an app that might not even be able to handle it and claims they wanna charge 10-20 bucks.....

yeah charging 10-20 bucks sounds great for the fans....for poor people....but whats to stop them from doing a fight party where 10 people pay 2 bucks a pop? lol....same as would happen if people had a fight party for the 80-100 dollar price.....

the fighters don't really care about the fans....they are in it to make the most money they can....and im fairly certain wilders team has done their research and realize theyd likely be losing money fighting on that app as opposed to US ppv...this fight is getting bigger by the day

Well, thats kind of what I'm getting at. If you agree that clearly Wilder is the B side, you would have to question the validity of his demands for a 50/50 split wouldnt you?

And again, in what context is it considered that the 12.5mill offer to Wilder is "lowball"? At the time, I believe Wilders largest purse was a couple million at best was it not? Im not sure of the precise amount, but lets assume it was 3mill. 12.5mill is over 4 times larger than that.
So in respect to his earnings up to that point in time it would be a huge "pay raise" rather than a "pay cut" wouldnt it? And as far as location, its pretty standard for the A side to have the advantage of deciding.
And since you would agree Wilder is clearly the B side, how exactly is it percieved that Wilder not only got lowballed but that he also has the higher position to choose the fight location as well??

I agree with your thoughts that projections are rarely accurate and add they can be very misleading dependant on what metrics are being used to make a projection. Im not questioning what the fight can possibly generate or what was done by whom in order to gain a perspective.

As a longtime fight fan, I'm not as optimistic as you are that the fight is gaining huge momentum. I would say the jury is still out and would do huge PPV #'s, bigger than what we have witnessed in recent years I'm sure, but wouldnt be all that shocked if it was the contrary.
And it seems a bit nonsensical to me that you would claim the fight "doesn't belong on an app". If the argument is that not everyone uses or are familiar with apps, I would rebutt that a similar amount if not more people do not have cable access or PPV access.
And what is what exactly are you referring to when you state that "it might not be able to handle it"? Are you implying that they don't have the network resources to handle global distribution(are you aware that lease options for network solutions are available from all major communication backbones to cover literally the worlds entire urban population), or are you stating that they lack the proper workforce and production savvy to coordinate the event properly? I believe DAZN is a major player in Europe, and Asia for the regions major sports so it would surprise me to think they are incapable of ogranizing big events.

"For poor people" IMO truly is lacking in respect for all walks of life and also irrational to be a valid argument of why it costs $10-$20 as opposed to $80-$100 on PPV.
For starters, its not as if the fighters are not being generously and comparably compensated in comparison to PPV projections. And there are people in this world who are fight fans that are not able to earn as much money as some others are fortunate enough to earn. To you maybe $80-$100 is a "drop in the bucket" but that same amount could be someones entire weeks pay and cannot consider it as a frivolous entertainment expense.
Irrational because you seem to be implying that as a paying consumer who is not "poor people", you prefer to pay more for the same product/service in spite of it being offered to you for considerably less.
So Im going to naively assume you hypothetically would have no problem paying for a Chevy truck at a dealer lot for $80k when theres another Lot offering the same exact truck for $20k.
I earn enough to provide for my family and live comfortably without want, but if I could save $50-$80 for something(especially on personal entertainment), I would look in the mirror and slap myself if I didnt take advantage of it. Thats just me.

I dont believe its that extreme that fighter dont care about the fans. But who knows what exactly could be going through their minds really? Not me to determine that.
I will disagree again about Wilders team losing money.
In essence, if you are guaranteed more money in your pocket right now than you've recieved in total for your entire career, no matter if its "projected" to be worth $1billion, you are earning, not losing. The only reason that would make someone actually believe they are losing in that scenario is greed.

[WOKnWOH]

if AJ fights wilder off DAZN then they are pissed at hearn...and if AJ loses to wilder off DAZN, without DAZN having rights on wilder, then hearn has NOTHING of value to bring DAZN cept some fringe names

if wilder loses haymons roster still has value!

you idiotic AJ fans cant understand wilders "current pay" means nothing in this situation because he wouldn't be fighting any of his past or current foes....AJ is his own separate entity..hes not Ortiz...hes not fury...hes not stiverne and hes not Washington....hes AJ....you throw wilders old pay and current pay out the window

that's like saying "Charles martins previous high payday was 300k....why on earth would anyone pay him 6 million"...lol....martin wasn't fighting any of his previous opponents...he was fighting AJ......its too hard for you guys to grasp that wilders value vs everyone else is not the same as his value to a fight with AJ......its simple yet still way over your heads

One of my many character defects is that I like to see the proper context thats been omitted applied to statements that seem slightly propaganda ish and attempting to try and cast a certain spin.

It has been verified that the DAZN offer to Wilder was in fact for 3 Fights(with both money and opponents guaranteed) first being against Breazeale since it was already scheduled to take place, and the 2 remaining was for Joshua and a subsequent rematch win or lose for both fighters. DAZN was not making making an attempt to have rights over Wilders future fights after the rematch. IMO, the Breazeale fight was included primarily because it was already set to be Wilders next fight and again this is IMO, give a big incentive on top of the already huge guarnantees for both Joshua fights to persuade Wilder to sign for the fight.
Matchrooms stable is nowhere near as deep as PBC I agree, but to say that they only have some fringe names is grasping quite a bit to support your scenario.
I may have missed some news if the following are no longer with Matchroom, but I remember
Usyk, Smith, Kelly, Haney, Bivol, Katie Taylor, Andrade, Farmer, Hooker, Jacobs, Gasiev, Rungvisai, Roman, Brook, Whyte, Vargas as being on their roster....Im sure I'm missing a few other highly touted fighters that can be added. You're suggesting that these are "some fringe names"?

And to the contrary, what the "projected" amount they could possibly get for the fight has nothing to do with what their "worth is", THAT IS the reason why PPV fights are negotiated with a modest/slightly generous guarantee(generally bit more than their best purse to date) for both fighters and then they add THE % SPLIT to be used to represent their earnings "POTENTIAL".
If hypothetically the fight sold 0 PPV buys and only has the gate, do you rationally believe that they still will/should be paid the "projected revenues"? Just as my hypothetical scenario can be said to be "unrealistic" the same argument can be made about the "projected" $100-$300mill PPV buys everyone is clamoring about. Its the fighters proven track record(past to current prize money earned) that determines what they are worth and you keep making insults towards Joshua fans, when you make statements that are on the same idiotic level you seem to loathe.

You can survey the whos who of boxing from fighters to promoters to media and I can confidently trust the consensus would be that DAZNs GUARANTEED Offer for $100mill for the 3 fights is ridiculous money and unprecedented.

Lastly, at the time Joshua and Martin fought, although Joshuas marketability was quickly rising, he was still just another top contender and Martin was the champ. And its not relevant what may be said of Martin, he was the Holder of the title and Joshua had none and was technically the B side challenger(Yes, the B side does make offers contrary to your assertions) so they offered Martin a generous amount in order to get the opportunity to claim the title and ability to flex A side muscle in the future. And to clarify, offers made to Wilder have never been close to what he was earning, they were substantially higher just as Martins offer was.

[Slicc]

most of what you typed is a bunch of nonsense and drivel

Nice excuse to get out of responding to what I said.

Floyd cant speak properly either and he made close to a billion in purses...lol

Wilder's not Mayweather, and I highly doubt he'll make anywhere near what Mayweather has.

no one is claiming they "prefer" to pay more money you idiot...that's what is totally lost on you....what im saying is the fighters don't care about the fans....they are out to make the most money for themselves

Okay, so you refer to anyone who pays the $80 as reasonable, and to anyone who pays $20 as dumb, broke slobs. Going off of this, anybody would think that you'd rather pay $80 than $20. That's the kind of stuff people say when they got more money than sense.

if wilder feels theres an extra 10-15 million(or more) out there for him in this fight....if it goes to ppv....then its on him......he doesn't care if you are poor and would rather pay less....he has a product and there is demand for it...hes not out to make your day.....youre the one wanting to see him fight Joshua.....

Wilder doesn't have a large enough following to make more on PPV, than what Hearn offered him on DAZN. Wilder wouldn't make $40m fighting anyone on PPV, even Joshua.