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The difference between moving up and outgrowing weightclasses

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    The difference between moving up and outgrowing weightclasses

    I thought I would make this thread because I often see people saying things like this guy moved up 3 or 4 weight classes when to me it appears that he outgrew those weight classes. I think there are fighters that actually jump up weight classes for challenges but there aren't as many as people think, most times when a fighter moves up it was because the strain of making weight was beginning to affect his performances in the ring. Also it is much easier to go through divisions at lower weights, you can't say stuff like Broner moved up 4 times so why can't Golovkin when it's evident that Broner is simply outgrowing divisions... how many times has Broner lost a belt on the scales?.... Would you say Danny Garcia moved up to 147?? I wouldn't.

    Other examples:

    Floyd Mayweather: I'm a fan of his but the narrative of him moving up 4 divisions is false in my opinion, he pretty much outgrew all of them except for his move to 154 as that is what I would call a jump up as he could still make 147. A strong piece of evidence is him not honouring the CW with Marquez..... despite his low rehydration weight gain it is clear that he could not get below 146 comfortably and chose to pay Marquez the penalty. Just because you only pack on a couple of pounds doesn't mean you can cut extra weight.

    Manny Pacquaio: Less certain about when he did jump up but I believe up until he got to 135 he had been outgrowing divisions but he did make the move up to 147 to face De la Hoya and this was clearly evidenced by the fact he dropped down to 140 for his next fight against Hatton. So you could say he moved up like 2 or 3 divisions.

    Hopkins: Now he actually made the move up to LHW... a 2 weightclass jump, he was always a big middleweight but he always made weight without trouble so you can't say he outgrew the weightclass but it would be worth noting that he only made this move after he was dethroned by Jermain Taylor. Would he have done this if he hadn't lost to taylor? .... your guess is as good as mine.

    Brook: A large welterweight by any standard but its obvious he is making a 2 weightclass jump here. Golovkin fan boys will try to tell you this guy is a natural middleweight but any one who isn't a cheerleader knows Brook is moving up and not outgrowing his division. He recently talked up a future Spence fight and still holds the IBF title and is yet to vacate it so right now as far as I'm concerned he is still a welterweight.

    In Golovkin's case, I don't think very many fighters would move up in his position to be fair. He is average sized for his weight class and holds multiple titles there, of course if he wants to achieve greatness he can move up in the future but people are using bad examples to justify him moving up... I've seen a guy say Canelo moved up (like really??) so why can't GGG. Canelo never moved up anywhere, the guy is outgrowing divisions.... God knows why he's still at 154. I'm no Golovkin fan but I believe in fair criticism regardless of whether you like a fighter or not, very few fighters do what some of you are asking him to do and those that do often do so because of money. There really aren't really any money fights at 168 unless he fights DeGale in the UK.

    Just my two cents/pence on the whole moving up thing, if you guys have other examples of fighters who actually moved up and didn't outgrow their divisions I'd like to hear them.

    #2
    Golovkin didn't ask for Brook. It was Hearn who made this fight.

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      #3
      Originally posted by MDPopescu View Post
      Golovkin didn't ask for Brook. It was Hearn who made this fight.
      and they took it... bad decision

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        #4
        Originally posted by MDPopescu View Post
        Golovkin didn't ask for Brook. It was Hearn who made this fight.
        Did you even read any of what I said?

        Take off your fan boy shades for a second and understand the point of the thread.

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          #5
          nice thread btw, I'm not so sure that Mayweather wouldn't have been able to make 140 when he competed in 147 though...
          He always seemed like a not very undersized but smaller ww

          also, outgrowing a division can be also a decision if you think about it
          some fighters intentionally gain more muscle so they can move on to the next weightclass without having big size disadvantages in them.
          Ward did this recently, he intentionally gained more muscle to become a full fledged LHW, instead of a blown up smw...
          Canelo also kinda does this but he overdoes it and he should have moved up already imo

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by NaijaD View Post
            Did you even read any of what I said?

            Take off your fan boy shades for a second and understand the point of the thread.
            Golovkin is old by now -- he's chasing some money fights.

            (and, for instance, Hearn didn't provide DeGale for this fight).

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by HEND View Post
              nice thread btw, I'm not so sure that Mayweather wouldn't have been able to make 140 when he competed in 147 though...
              He always seemed like a not very undersized but smaller ww

              also, outgrowing a division can be also a decision if you think about it
              some fighters intentionally gain more muscle so they can move on to the next weightclass without having big size disadvantages in them.
              Ward did this recently, he intentionally gained more muscle to become a full fledged LHW, instead of a blown up smw...
              Canelo also kinda does this but he overdoes it and he should have moved up already imo
              Yeah Ward is a tricky example but I do think he moved up also because he had never shown difficulty making 168 but obviously he can't go back down now but at the time of making the decision I believe he could have still competed at 168 so I'm with you on that.

              With Floyd I feel that he doesn't pack on a lot of pounds after the weigh in but you can't assume that means he could cut the extra weight. He didn't stay at 140 very long so you might be able to say he moved up to 147.

              Roy Jones is another one who I think outgrew his weight classes apart from the HW bout, that was undoubtedly a jump.

              Comment


                #8
                I think it varies which each fighter. It takes a tremendous amount of sacrifice and willpower for a boxer to reach a particular weight limit. For example, some have to work at least as twice as hard to get down to their fighting weight while others do not.

                Bernard Hopkins is a good example of this. Yes, while he was comfortably making the 160lb limit; However at the same time, there were notable signs that he had outgrown the division or having difficulty making weight, which was evidenced by his uneven performances, leading up to the Jermain Taylor losses.

                For example, by the time he was nearing his 40th birthday, he was losing both stamina and power. His work rate was getting very low as he was averaging throwing fewer punches per round. Also, he lacked the stamina to get stoppages as compared to earlier in his reign as Middleweight champion too.

                All these signs point to the fact that he was having trouble making weight and had outgrown the division. However, once he moved up to 175, he became a reinvigorated fighter. He was stronger. Had more energy and power, as his work rate increased by averaging throwing more punches per round and scoring knockdowns at the higher weight division as well.

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                  #9
                  how about Brandon Rios? he def outgrew 135 but did he outgrow 140 or jump to 147? Constantly coming down from 180+ is tough but he been use to that

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by sbeatz View Post
                    how about Brandon Rios? he def outgrew 135 but did he outgrow 140 or jump to 147? Constantly coming down from 180+ is tough but he been use to that
                    I would say he jumped to 147 because of the Pac opportunity but he stayed there because he was lazy when it came to making weight.

                    He would have had more success at 140 in my opinion.

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