Comments Thread For: Garcia-Guerrero Preliminary Ratings Average - 2.259 Million

[Dr Rumack]

Sure they will add things to expand their viewers provided it makes financial sense. No network puts out programming that loses millions which PBC does. And the only reason PBC is on Fox, etc is because they are paying the networks. That's it. Smaller networks can't afford to pay these purses with so little return. So either PBC turns into ESPN Friday Night Fight type of programming cheap fights full of journey men and low level prospects or they need to drastically increase their ratings because it just makes no business sense for any network to buy a product they know will lose millions each card just to "expand" their viewers. LMAO And duva got dropped because what network will turn down a free lunch? PBC offering to pay networks millions and cover all the purses means there is no risk they make money even if PBC flops. It's good business to not reup with duva where the network pays duva instead of pbc willing to pay the network. That's a no brainer.

The problem is pbc is failing and losing hundreds of millions and it's a ticking time bomb till the money runs out. Once that happens no network has a reason to stay in business with pbc. Pbc business model just doesn't work.

I would love to know what the implications for Haymon are if PBC tanks. It seems entirely possible that his fighters all simply migrate to a Mayweather Promotions ran by Richard Schaefer afterwards and fight on Showtime again. Could Haymon continue as their 'advisor' if that's the case? It wouldn't even surprise me if that was the expected outcome all along. Unless they massively miscalculated with respect to ratings growth, which is possible I suppose.

[New England]

You're focusing on one outlier though. Canelo-Kirkland did great numbers, that was great for boxing, but it was also the first time since 2009 HBO had broken 2M. That isn't a regular number for HBO. It was much closer to a fluke aided by the Mayweather-Pacquaio lead-in and Canelo's first fight off PPV in 4 fights and his return to HBO.

HBO usually does ~1M per show, and even that number is usually top 10 among all original cable programs on Saturday nights. Regardless of how much HBO costs. HBO does really good ratings for boxing regardless of their position as a pay channel.

For comparison's sake FOX did 1.1M at 8 and 9PM EST last Saturday. PBC doubled that.

it went against NFL playoffs, the biggest event in american TV history

and you're talking about outliers...

sometimes you just need to say "well, NE's here and he's disagreeing with me. it's probably time to pull up a chair and learn something. he won't be here forever."

[baya]

it went against NFL playoffs, the biggest event in american TV history

and you're talking about outliers...

sometimes you just need to say "well, NE's here and he's disagreeing with me. it's probably time to pull up a chair and learn something. he won't be here forever."

what an asshole

[Pigeons]

it went against NFL playoffs, the biggest event in american TV history

and you're talking about outliers...

sometimes you just need to say "well, NE's here and he's disagreeing with me. it's probably time to pull up a chair and learn something. he won't be here forever."

FOX did even worse the weekend before that. I posted it already before you abandoned the smackdown I was giving you.

[bigdunny1]

it went against NFL playoffs, the biggest event in american TV history

and you're talking about outliers...

sometimes you just need to say "well, NE's here and he's disagreeing with me. it's probably time to pull up a chair and learn something. he won't be here forever."

Not only did fox go up against NFL they knew this and did not even a tempt to compete with the NFL which is why they decided to air re runs of FOX shows. The ratings for PBC were so bad and they finished dead last but hey at least they beat Foxs re runs? Fox paid a small license fee to air old content re runs and PBC spent millions and millions for terrible ratings.

[New England]

FOX did even worse the weekend before that. I posted it already before you abandoned the smackdown I was giving you.

i don't work, i just hide from bscene comments

[tredh]

Heard in DC and other areas they didnt show fight for emergency coverage of blizzard. i watched fight this morning. Was good

The fight was shown on a local affiliate channel. Fox actually ran a banner at the bottom of the screen letting local people know the fight was being shown on a different channel. I live in DC and that is only way I saw the fight that night.

[bigdunny1]

FOX did even worse the weekend before that. I posted it already before you abandoned the smackdown I was giving you.

But the examples you provided were re runs. Each of those shows when they first aired smoked the PBC ratings. For first aired content these ratings are not good.

[Butch.McRae]

Food for thought

I get the premise of the argument that production costs (purses plus marketing) is what makes the PBC model and these ratings a failure. But I'm under the belief that there is a scenario where PBC uses the Saturday prime time ratings from NBC, FOX, & CBS (which are on par with the UFC on Fox prime time ratings following UFC on Fox 10; which have been hovering between 2.5 & 3 million viewers from 11-17) and attempts get a content deal very similar to the one UFC has with FOX. The ratings for Spike and ESPN have been similar to the FS1 ratings (although lower on average). When you look at the comparisons across "like stations" (ex. NBC to Fox) (or ESPN to FS1), there is an argument to made that once the fans know exactly where to find the PBC fights consistently that the ratings will go up. I think this is a plausible argument and it is one that will definitely get a listen or two from more than one network. Because that is what happened with UFC. (My bet is either FOX, NBC, or CBS. I don't think ABC is very interested at all.)

And I'm not so sure that it would call for a reduction in the amount of money that is paid out to the fighters (at least not overall, but definitely their fight purses). Correct me if I'm wrong but there are only a few of Haymon's fighters who get the $1 million+ purses right? Once the PBC is consolidated to a single network there are opportunities to create other avenues for fighters to receive compensation (via sponsorship and content deals).This is due to the nature of the contracts they have signed with the PBC, which to my understanding creates a formal relationship (although not an exclusive one). I agree that the platform is currently losing money, but I do believe that this was the plan all along. With the slate of fights that seem to be coming down the pipeline for PBC it appears that the ratings for prime time content will look good when the content deals expire and its time to re-up with a single network. For example, the Thurman Porter fight is likely going to do more than 3 million views on prime time CBS. (My guess is an average around 3.5 - 4 million, and a peak of 4.5 - 5 million). That would give the PBC 2 fights that have averaged over 3 million views (For comparison, only 7 of the 17 UFC/Fox prime time fights have averaged more than 3 million views.) With fights that can be made in the Heavyweight, Light Heavyweight, Super & Junior Middleweight, Welterweight, and Featherweight divisions PBC definitely has some fights that can crack the average viewer 3 million mark. (This 3 million views benchmark, is premised on the assumption that Fox and other networks considers that number of views as a success).

I'm not bias either way, but I do think that their should be an objective opinion on the matter. I love what I'm seeing on HBO just as much as I do being able to watch more boxing in general. But its too early to know whether the PBC is a success or not. Below I have provided viewing numbers for the prime time (8:30 PM) cards of the major ("free/non-cable") networks for both UFC and PBC. I would love to hear (objective) thoughts.

UFC on Fox:
1- 5.7 (million views)
2- 4.5
3- 2.2
4- 2.3
5- 3.4
6- 3.7
7- 3.3
8- 2
9- 2.4
10- 3.2
11- 2.5
12- 2.5
13- 2.8
14- 3
15- 2.7
16- 2.8
17- 2.7

Notice starting w/ UFC 11 (April 2014) there appears to be a maintained drop off in average viewership (about 300 - 500k). I have no idea why though. (help me out here someone)

PBC (on NBC, FOX thus far. CBS is next w/ Thurman v. Porter):
Thurman.Guerrero- 3.3
Garcia.Peterson- 2.8
Broner.Porter- 2.3
Wilder.Duhaupas- 2.2
Garcia.Guerrero- 2.5
Thurman.Porter- TBD

PBC could be turning a corner in the coming months with true 50/50 fights. (ex. Khan.Garcia, Wilder.Povetkin, Jack.DeGale, etc.) All of these fights (plus several more) could reasonably average 2.5 - 3 million or more views. Which would put it on par with UFC's recent performance. We'll just have to wait and see.

[bigdunny1]

With the slate of fights that seem to be coming down the pipeline for PBC it appears that the ratings for prime time content will look good when the content deals expire and its time to re-up with a single network. For example, the Thurman Porter fight is likely going to do more than 3 million views on prime time CBS.

Major problem with what you said here is this Thurman/Porter WILL NOT BE PBC brand. And why? Because they have already lost too much money in year 1 and could not afford it. It was originally planned to air as PBC on NBC back in what Nov/Dec? Kept getting moved and finally will be aired on Showtime on CBS and have nothing to do with PBC. Just like Jacobs vs Quillin was too expensive and originally released to press as a PBC fight only to later get moved to Showtime. Out of the fights you mentioned some might not get made at all and even if they do might be forced to go under the brand Showtime because PBC can't afford to pay for it. Also the UFC fights on fox debuted to far higher ratings then PBC debuted on Fox with. So if Fox is already in the fight game and has UFC fights that started with higher ratings to warrant their TV Deal they got with Fox and do slightly better ratings but only costs a fraction of the price to produce. Then why would they buy PBC that loses millions each card? And now can't even afford their best fights? While UFC does these ratings with their preliminary fights? Purses where the entire card cost less then what Haymon pays 1 of his main event fighters. And haymon's best and biggest names they are getting lower ratings then UFC's run of the mill NON HEADLINING fighters. People who think these ratings are good are not looking at the comparable for these networks they other options for cheaper programming that get's better ratings. FOX can finish dead last in ratings and do it with re runs of their own shows at a fraction of the cost. They don't need to overspend and lose millions to finish last in ratings like PBC just did.

And you left out PBC's last network prime time rating. 1.8mil viewers on NBC in mid Dec. Debuting on NBC primetime at 3.3mil viewers and airing 5 prime time shows in 2015 on NBC with EVERYONE of the shows the viewership decreased and ending with 1.8m viewers about half of what they first started is a BAD TREND. PBC on Fox just debuted at 33% less then what they PBC debuted at NBC and going by the trend where PBC shows have decreased on each network the longer it has gone on, second half of PBC shows on each network is down 33-50% from the first half of the shows on the same networks! That's a bad forecast for where the ratings are likely heading for FOX.