"Too Fast" Fury vs "Bronze Bomber" Wilder: Who wins?

[LoadedWraps]

I don't think there are many Wilder fans that'd have time accepting Fury provided he beats Wilder.


That said, ***** yer crazy. Fury and his team don't even know the right plan to come at Wilder with. They're real real confident in their very basic perspective of Wilder, kinda like their fans are, and Wilder's whole game plan plays off you accepting his inability.


They got that poor fat kid sat at a playstation watching YT to play catch-up and try to find something Jesus Christ man.

Confidence is a good thing unless you're absolutely ****in' wrong. Then it's your worst enemy and right now I don't think Fury has a chance in hell because he seems to believe his own bull****.

Except, why would Fury or his camp be completely wrong about anything?

Fury is undefeated and has never even been in trouble of losing. He is a complete boxer, defensive mastermind, and ring wizard.

Wilders unorthodox style isn't enough to "confuse" Fury. Fury is the one who confuses his opponents, they never have more shades or depth than he. Wilder isn't Maidana, whom you could argue has high ring IQ and can box aside from slug. Wilder isn't that type of fighter.

Fury has a plethora of ways he can approach the fight, meanwhile wilder has only one.

Objectively, it's not close.

[Marchegiano]

Except, why would Fury or his camp be completely wrong about anything?

Fury is undefeated and has never even been in trouble of losing. He is a complete boxer, defensive mastermind, and ring wizard.

Wilders unorthodox style isn't enough to "confuse" Fury. Fury is the one who confuses his opponents, they never have more shades or depth than he. Wilder isn't Maidana, whom you could argue has high ring IQ and can box aside from slug. Wilder isn't that type of fighter.

Fury has a plethora of ways he can approach the fight, meanwhile wilder has only one.

Objectively, it's not close.

Alrighty buckaroo, let's go on a trip.

For the most part you're reading too much into what I said and assuming some of my motives logically, but wrongly. I didn't say anything about Wilder being unorthodox or confusing Fury. I said Fury's training for the wrong fight.

You should never fight your opponent's fight should you?

What is it you see Wilder as? The same as Fury see's Wilder right? Incapable of more than, to use your term, slugging?


To be honest, I was much more scared of Fury taking Wilder out prior them talking much about how they're going to fight one another because I thought more highly of him. I thought his understanding of both history and the mechanics of boxing was well rounded but it turns out it is one sided. Tyson Fury looks at boxing from a perspective that believes the point of the sport is to hit and not be hit back. While it is popular it is not the complete story.

I thought it was well known because of Marciano, but, I guess y'all did not learn what Marciano was doing to confuse and frustrate veteran top class boxers.


When you can do nothing but "slug" what sort of things should you train for? Given you lack the reflexes, speed, timing, etc to box how do you train? What is the basic and fundamental gameplan?

Somewhere, somehow, in someway, the "slugger" has to have a plan that he at least believes will give him an edge over the boxer right?

Don't you think a slugger fully expects and banks on a boxer boxing? Plans for it, trains for it, and expects it?

So to circle back to the first question; you should never fight your opponent's fight, should you? What fight is that in this case? What should Wilder expect to see out of Tyson? Some boxing yeah? Because Tyson, despite being the bigger man, believes he has to box Wilder to beat him. For the same reason why so many ATGs who still hold world records to this day failed to use their size against Marciano.

Because all they see is a poor boxer with a decent punch and a handful of very basic tricks. So their plan from their perspective, one the complete discounts the existence of Pygmachia and by extension pygmachos who practice it's form, seems obvious because they are seeing cliche amatuer mistakes and devastating KOs and little else.

This perspective is a mistake. Pygmachia is so disregarded you, a hardcore and knowledge boxing fan and I say that with no sarcasm intended, do not know what to call it when you see it or what noun to use to refer to those who fight using that style. Slugger, Brawler, Puncher, Caveman, Gladiator etcetera are all bastard terms. Colloquials youse have used inplace of the proper term because you needed to express it in some manner but did not know what word to use.


You often hear fans urge a boxer who has more of their skill set aimed toward pygmachia than boxing to add more boxing to their game. Especially when fighting a very talented boxer and the fans get nervous the pygmachos may fail without some higher level boxing skill attained.

That's true. That's what Wilder needs to do to really shake Fury up. Just like the Bermane One fight if Wilder has a means to box Fury he doesn't have to be the superior boxer to Fury he just has to be superior to Fury's expectations and use that to outbox Tyson where he needs to if he needs to.

The equal and opposite is also true for Pygmachia's baby form* Tyson Fury needs to understand and train in some level of very classical pygmachia. Sword and shield boxing. He can already box and move just fine, what he needs to add and should be working on is understanding how the pygmachos lays groundwork and how they breakdown their man differently than a boxer over rounds. Most importantly he has to understand the posture and position game Wilder will present. Phantoms are not called phantoms because the audience can't see them. Ali's was very famous because it was hard to see but phantoms had been around for ages prior to Ali. Phantoms are called phantoms because the fighter can't see them coming.

It's the one you didn't see coming right?

This is what the pygmachos is laying groundwork for. It isn't a lucky punch taking advantage of a fleeting opportunity they look for. it is a very carefully orchestrated control over their opponent based on their opponent's reactions to them.

Just like a boxer doing early work to the body the open up the head later the pygmachos does work throughout the right to open up a specific strike.

Like a boxer a pygmachos will have multiple tools and tricks to work with, they will be adaptable and do not necessarily have a specific punch in mind any more than a boxer going to the body then head has specific punches in mind.

Create opening and capitalize. They're both going to try to do it in their own way, but, the one who fights his opponent's fight is going to have a hard time getting a win.

Wilder's team plans on showing Tyson unseen tricks. Tyson's team plan's on Fury's Klitschko performance to do fine.


* I didn't refer to boxing as a baby form compare to pygmachia to detract from boxing. Pygmachia existed before the Lacedaemonians became Spartans. Boxing, as in hit and don't be hit back, the martial art not the sport itself, comes from 1790s England. Pygmachia over a millennium of age on boxing.

[Santa_]

[IMG]//media.*****.com/media/fjXSwNcLyADjG/*****.gif[/IMG]

[eco1]

Alrighty buckaroo, let's go on a trip.

For the most part you're reading too much into what I said and assuming some of my motives logically, but wrongly. I didn't say anything about Wilder being unorthodox or confusing Fury. I said Fury's training for the wrong fight.

You should never fight your opponent's fight should you?

What is it you see Wilder as? The same as Fury see's Wilder right? Incapable of more than, to use your term, slugging?


To be honest, I was much more scared of Fury taking Wilder out prior them talking much about how they're going to fight one another because I thought more highly of him. I thought his understanding of both history and the mechanics of boxing was well rounded but it turns out it is one sided. Tyson Fury looks at boxing from a perspective that believes the point of the sport is to hit and not be hit back. While it is popular it is not the complete story.

I thought it was well known because of Marciano, but, I guess y'all did not learn what Marciano was doing to confuse and frustrate veteran top class boxers.


When you can do nothing but "slug" what sort of things should you train for? Given you lack the reflexes, speed, timing, etc to box how do you train? What is the basic and fundamental gameplan?

Somewhere, somehow, in someway, the "slugger" has to have a plan that he at least believes will give him an edge over the boxer right?

Don't you think a slugger fully expects and banks on a boxer boxing? Plans for it, trains for it, and expects it?

So to circle back to the first question; you should never fight your opponent's fight, should you? What fight is that in this case? What should Wilder expect to see out of Tyson? Some boxing yeah? Because Tyson, despite being the bigger man, believes he has to box Wilder to beat him. For the same reason why so many ATGs who still hold world records to this day failed to use their size against Marciano.

Because all they see is a poor boxer with a decent punch and a handful of very basic tricks. So their plan from their perspective, one the complete discounts the existence of Pygmachia and by extension pygmachos who practice it's form, seems obvious because they are seeing cliche amatuer mistakes and devastating KOs and little else.

This perspective is a mistake. Pygmachia is so disregarded you, a hardcore and knowledge boxing fan and I say that with no sarcasm intended, do not know what to call it when you see it or what noun to use to refer to those who fight using that style. Slugger, Brawler, Puncher, Caveman, Gladiator etcetera are all bastard terms. Colloquials youse have used inplace of the proper term because you needed to express it in some manner but did not know what word to use.


You often hear fans urge a boxer who has more of their skill set aimed toward pygmachia than boxing to add more boxing to their game. Especially when fighting a very talented boxer and the fans get nervous the pygmachos may fail without some higher level boxing skill attained.

That's true. That's what Wilder needs to do to really shake Fury up. Just like the Bermane One fight if Wilder has a means to box Fury he doesn't have to be the superior boxer to Fury he just has to be superior to Fury's expectations and use that to outbox Tyson where he needs to if he needs to.

The equal and opposite is also true for Pygmachia's baby form* Tyson Fury needs to understand and train in some level of very classical pygmachia. Sword and shield boxing. He can already box and move just fine, what he needs to add and should be working on is understanding how the pygmachos lays groundwork and how they breakdown their man differently than a boxer over rounds. Most importantly he has to understand the posture and position game Wilder will present. Phantoms are not called phantoms because the audience can't see them. Ali's was very famous because it was hard to see but phantoms had been around for ages prior to Ali. Phantoms are called phantoms because the fighter can't see them coming.

It's the one you didn't see coming right?

This is what the pygmachos is laying groundwork for. It isn't a lucky punch taking advantage of a fleeting opportunity they look for. it is a very carefully orchestrated control over their opponent based on their opponent's reactions to them.

Just like a boxer doing early work to the body the open up the head later the pygmachos does work throughout the right to open up a specific strike.

Like a boxer a pygmachos will have multiple tools and tricks to work with, they will be adaptable and do not necessarily have a specific punch in mind any more than a boxer going to the body then head has specific punches in mind.

Create opening and capitalize. They're both going to try to do it in their own way, but, the one who fights his opponent's fight is going to have a hard time getting a win.

Wilder's team plans on showing Tyson unseen tricks. Tyson's team plan's on Fury's Klitschko performance to do fine.


* I didn't refer to boxing as a baby form compare to pygmachia to detract from boxing. Pygmachia existed before the Lacedaemonians became Spartans. Boxing, as in hit and don't be hit back, the martial art not the sport itself, comes from 1790s England. Pygmachia over a millennium of age on boxing.

Moby ****?

[Earl-Hickey]

Except, why would Fury or his camp be completely wrong about anything?

Fury is undefeated and has never even been in trouble of losing. He is a complete boxer, defensive mastermind, and ring wizard.

Wilders unorthodox style isn't enough to "confuse" Fury. Fury is the one who confuses his opponents, they never have more shades or depth than he. Wilder isn't Maidana, whom you could argue has high ring IQ and can box aside from slug. Wilder isn't that type of fighter.

Fury has a plethora of ways he can approach the fight, meanwhile wilder has only one.

Objectively, it's not close.

Never been in danger of losing?

John mcdermott won 7/10 rounds against him lol

Fury spent years being underated and is now overrated.

Prime vs prime he shades wilder but hes not prime. Not at all.

[Marchegiano]

Moby ****?

Most times my conclusions are not without some level of consideration.


Basically just asked him if a slugger can only slug don't you think he's training and expecting for his opponent to try to box him.

[Warrior Scholar]

Fury Ud or Ko in rd 9-11.
Let me break this down. Life teachers in a person's environment as they age will always endow one with more knowledge and teachings if they see qualities they like. Respect is the number one quality teachers like. So you see, one who carries a respectful vibe always carries more wisdom to their older years through their lives. I really want to like Wilder, I just don't like how he disrespects people. I consider him a pretender, who has gotten soft by fighting men he knows he can beat, in his own country. To me, it seemed as if he wasn't shown how to be a respectful man, when he was a kid,* by another respectful elder male. His coach is very intelligent and holds a KO victory over Lloyd Honeyghan. The other coach he has, his name slips my mind but he is great, humble and respectful. Guarantee you after Fury whoops him, he won't want the rematch. This is personal, between Fury and Wilder. Fury would've went into the sunset and destroyed himself, but Wilder saved him by talking bad about him on social media. There will be a movie made about this amazing story one day, I've seen probably 3500 fights over 25 yr and never seen anything like this in my life. It is historic. So when Wilder did Fury this favor, Fury, salesman that he is, got on Wilders good side, he got some sympathy from him and asked him to make him a promise to give him a shot if he put his heart back into the game. One day after Wilder accepted this, Fury posted a video of him jogging, looked like the Michelin man :-)...but at the end he smiled and said Deontay, you started this my boy....smiling sadistically. I'll come back and eat my words if I'm wrong

Also, their two top sparring partners are Joyce for Fury, Fa for Wilder. Fa has a really nice, fast right cross, but he is chinny. Usyk peppered him and he took off, but Joyce didn't stiffen up and stood in the pocket with Usyk while Fa bought a schwinn. I like Fa, I just don't think he is as good of a sparring partner as Joyce. People talk **** on Joyce but I see an ATG chin in that fighter. I like his attitude, he comes to get it and doesn't **** around. Abel Sanchez really likes him, you pretty much have to be a tough mfr to even dip your toe in his respect. He only talks good about the best. And THAT, my friends, is the ONLY THING I HAVE BAD TO SAY ABOUT FURY: Sanchez didn't really get excited and talk good about Fury. Which is worth noting...but Fury UD or KO in rd 9-11.

Also, Fury was a boy when he began boxing - Wilder was 21 or 22.

[Warrior Scholar]

Totals /w win methods combined
53.65% Fury
46.35% Wilder

[eco1]

Most times my conclusions are not without some level of consideration.


Basically just asked him if a slugger can only slug don't you think he's training and expecting for his opponent to try to box him.

What I think is that the only reason Wilder rushed Fury into this is because Fury was coming out of a 2 year old trip to hell and back. Otherwise he would not have asked for Fury.

Wilder only seems to fight tomato cans and the only test he had was Ortiz and let me tell you, the referee left a lot to be desired, like he was just trying to help Wilder with his rabbit punches and all.

[Marchegiano]

What I think is that the only reason Wilder rushed Fury into this is because Fury was coming out of a 2 year old trip to hell and back. Otherwise he would not have asked for Fury.

Wilder only seems to fight tomato cans and the only test he had was Ortiz and let me tell you, the referee left a lot to be desired, like he was just trying to help Wilder with his rabbit punches and all.

He asked for Fury in 2012, then he asked for Fury before Fury-Hammer, then Fury asked for him after he KO'd Artur. Wlad obligations, retirement, fattening, Wilder-Joshua talks, Wilder challenges Fury to get in shape, comeback fights, Wilder-Joshua fail to make a fight, Fury steps up.

To condense that down to just the two year layoff complete disregards Wilder calling Fury out first, and prior to them both having titles. Also it conflates Wilder and Fury's timelines. It is Fury who has a new found interest in Wilder.

Wilder tried to stop Tyson from getting a title not the other way around. Tyson only became interested in Wilder recently not the other way around.