Amateur Boxing - USA, Puerto Rico, Mexico

[Eff Pandas]

It's 5 thousand. So you have 8 or 9 fights, it's actually half a year. The tournament isn't the whole calendar year. You win let's say 5 out of these 8 fights and you got 25 thousand in half a year fighting 5 rounds fights and still able to compete at the amateurs.

Ahhh ok $5k sounds much more reasonable than the $5M you mentioned before.

I mean but ok so if you win you get $5k, but if you are good enough to win these level fights in the WSB you are more than ready to turn pro & likely get a 5 or 6 digit signing bonus, a monthly stipend of 1.5k-2k (win or don't win your fights, although if you lose it won't last obviously, but the competition will be easier than the WSB for probably 2 or 3 years) & a car &/or apartment.

I imagine there is more going on pay-wise with how some of these amateur programs work outside of the west cuz the WSB hasn't been around THAT long & there have been these "professional-like" 28yr old amateurs with a dozen years open experience in some countries for awhile. I mean **** man how does a 28 yr old man "make it" in amateur boxing which pays you no money (just took care of some expenses) til recently if not some state sponsored $ coming in for you? Or were they just that passionate about not making money or amateur boxing? Granted Cuba gots its own lil vacuum there, but there are other places that got old ass late 20's/early 30's amateurs with 300+ fights.

[NEETzsche]

i believe that in countries like kazakhstan, uzbekistan, russia & co. the government subsidises their amateur boxers because it's actually a bigger sport over there than professional boxing. this is why they are more likely to stay amateur well into their late 20s and often permanently

[Eff Pandas]

i believe that in countries like kazakhstan, uzbekistan, russia & co. the government subsidises their amateur boxers because it's actually a bigger sport over there than professional boxing. this is why they are more likely to stay amateur well into their late 20s and often permanently

Yea with that going on its not surprising guys from the west are turning pro in their teens & early 20's. What are you gonna do be Raushee Warren who was 27 or w/e fighting amateur but is training vs 18-22yr olds all day & than you gotta compete against 25-30yr olds internationally who are training all day with 25-30yr olds? The odds are stacked against you so turning pro is clearly the best option.

[JJRod]

Mexico has never really had a good amateur program.
Most of their guys turn pro as quickly as possible. Barrera, Margarito, Canelo, salido all turned pros at 15. All with pretty much no amateur experience, with the exception of Barrera.

The amateur program in Mexico is not so much about how many trophies you can acquire but rather how good can you look before a promoter comes calling to you to turn you pro. I believe the same has happened to the US and Puerto Rico. They rather have money than medals a d trophies.

On the other hand the communist or former communist countries still have the tradition of competing in amateur championships and taking trophies. Since many couldn't turn pros the amateur tournaments is what they lived for.

[HI-TECH Boxing]

There are a few problems. For one, other countries have just gotten better and are continuing to get better. Countries like Ukraine, Russia, Kazakhstan, Ireland, Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan are on top of their game and are producing talent at all levels (Junior, Youth, Elite/Senior).
Another thing is that US boxers go pro too early. I can't remember his name, but a US boxer said he thought 21 would be too old to turn pro.
They are tempted by the money. One of the reasons why foreign fighters don't go pro is because many of them simply don't get the opportunity. You have to be an Olympian, Olympic Medalist or a World Championship medalist to get noticed. In the US you don't even have to be an Olympian or Medalist at a big international tournament, as long as you are one of the better fighters in the Country you'll get offers and opportunities to go pro.

I agree. Also, a lot of hot amateur prospects from the US are snatched up quickly by promoters these days. Are you familiar with Devin Haney? He was probably the best amateur in the world. He just turned 17 and is making his pro debut soon, Floyd picked him up. The guy hasn't even had 50 amateur fights yet. A lot of young kids these days are convinced to turn pro too early, way before their amateur maturity. I know this isn't new, but the big money in modern boxing is making this more common.

Haney was far from the best amateur in the world. The only major International tournament he competed in was the World Junior Championships and he didn't even medal. They're saying he was number 1 in the World to start getting him some hype before turning pro.
Haney didn't even win an Elite/Senior Golden Gloves or National title, he was too young to compete at those tournaments to be fair, but I don't know why they are allowing him to go pro so early. He'll only be 21 going on 22 for the next Olympics?
I'm not even sure he was number 1 in the USA, he lost to Ruben Villa in a tournament. Villa along with Francisco Martinez are the favorites to win the Olympic Trials in December.

[ShoulderRoll]

Mexico has rarely turned out good Olympians yet they have produced many great world champions. Amateur and pro are two very different games and over here in the West we tend to prefer the pro style.

[Eff Pandas]

Another thing is that US boxers go pro too early.

What do you feel is an ideal age or # of fights to have before turning pro?

I think its a case by case thing myself. Plus your own options to make money are in play. Like I've never understood the go to college angle for talented basketball players. With the money involved today if you are the best HS player & you can get a $10M/yr NBA deal or w/e why would you wanna go play a year for free (or a education)? Its 2015, you can go to a bunch of schools online with that $10M/yr while you play & you're whole life is secure if you play your cards right. No boxers have as cherry a situation as that, but if you are a 18-22yr old top amateur & its 1-3yrs to the Olympics (which you may or may not qualify for with the maze guys gotta go thru these day & you may or may not win if you do qualify for) & you can get a $150k signing bonus + $2k/mo deal thats a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush situation imo.

Personally I feel guys in many of the countries you bring up should be turning pro sooner. You correctly mention (to the best of my knowledge) that they don't have as many avenues to turn pro, but I'd suggest thats just a thing that needs to be realized & corrected either by smart people with $ or the fighters themselves.

I mean ffs as a 25yr old you should be trying to make some attempt at making a life for yourself not hitting people in the head for free or $5k/per win if you are good enough to get in the WSB.

[Bardock]

Mexico has rarely turned out good Olympians yet they have produced many great world champions. Amateur and pro are two very different games and over here in the West we tend to prefer the pro style.

^This. North American boxing world champions>>>>>>> Everyone else

[NEETzsche]

^This. North American boxing world champions>>>>>>> Everyone else

not at the moment. and two of your best current pros, ward and andrade, just happen to be guys with deep amateur backgrounds. world class amateur experience is invaluable for a young fighter and i think some of the USA's next generation will suffer for a lack of it. who has the advantage, a 26 year old who has already honed his skills in several international tournaments or a 26 year old who has not fought anyone who punched back since he was a junior fighter?

[Bardock]

not at the moment. and two of your best current pros, ward and andrade, just happen to be guys with deep amateur backgrounds. world class amateur experience is invaluable for a young fighter and i think some of the USA's next generation will suffer for a lack of it. who has the advantage, a 26 year old who has already honed his skills in several international tournaments or a 26 year old who has not fought anyone who punched back since he was a junior fighter?

North America counts as Canada and Mexico too though lol