Is Ray Robinson really "TBE"? How u know if none of you were alive back then..

[Joe Beamish]

u want to me to destroy srl resume? because i can. in fact everyones resume cant be made to look ****


u dont need to see all his 200 fights to know how good he was. there are plenty of his big fights on youtube

Back to the original question, what were SRR's top wins? Not a list of everyone he fought. His best wins.

Now compare those to say, the wins Leonard has.

Or compare them to Ali's wins.

I think SRR didn't really beat the best fighters. That said -- maybe he was TBE, I don't know. I love his wins against Kid Galiván and would rate them first, but I don't see any victories against fighters the caliber of Duran, Hearns, Benitez or Hagler. Armstrong was mega great -- but way past prime.

[therealpugilist]

Ali, harry greb, tommy loughran, Leonard, Duran, Sam Langford, jimmy mcclarnin, and a few others fought stiffer overall comp

Srr was dominant but didn't fight a lot of all time greats....being in the hall doesn't mean you're an atg....wins over hearns, Duran, and benitez top anyone srr beat....basilio and gavilan, old Armstrong were his best opponents... Great but not as good as fighters ezzard charles, Archie Moore, ali beat.

[Skip Bayless]

Back to the original question, what were SRR's top wins? Not a list of everyone he fought. His best wins.

Now compare those to say, the wins Leonard has.

Or compare them to Ali's wins.

I think SRR didn't really beat the best fighters. That said -- maybe he was TBE, I don't know. I love his wins against Kid Galiván and would rate them first, but I don't see any victories against fighters the caliber of Duran, Hearns, Benitez or Hagler. Armstrong was mega great -- but way past prime.

people have already listed his best wins so im not gona bother doing it again.

how good was duran? he lost practically all his biggest fights except the 1 where he moved up to 147 against srl

srl lost his 2nd fight against hearns, he even admits it

the haggler fight is still up for debate to this date and u say armstrong was way past it well isnt the reason srl fought haggler because he saw him losing it?

now ali
liston fights = dubious circumstances
frasier = blind in 1 eye, pretty much only great fighter he beat was ali
ken norton = did he even win?
patterson = was he even a heavyweight?
foreman = loosened ropes, would he have won without it?
henry cooper = angelo cut his gloves to buy him time after knockdown

like i said before, everyones resume can be made to look ****.

[Pessimistic]

Best of "his" time. There is a documentary about him on HBO but for the life of me I can't remember what it's called so I can't provide a link. But, he was the first to really call the shots on his career. You say you think Tyson was great in your time? SRR fought just like Tyson's early schedule. Few weeks apart for years. Most of Tyson's early opponents weren't quality opposition either and I think Tyson was the best heavyweight fighter the 80's produced. TBE is used to loosely these days.

[Elroy1]

Ray Robinson myth has been completely exposed by boxrec and uploaded fight video.

It's clear that H2H, he'd never step into a professional boxing ring today at top level.

His record is unsurpassable but when we analyse it, 2 things come to light.

Today, fighters have more extensive ammy backgrounds before turning pro. If you take the most pedigreed boxers ammy+pro records combined, it turns out that modern fighters have similar actual experience as Robinson anyway. AND couple that with the fact they have more and higher quality sparring too and you get the picture. Ammy fights now are worth more than pro fights then in many instances.

And 2nd point. If you take Robinsons 200 fight record, and melt it down to non-bums, it turns out Robinson beat no more than around 30 odd decent opponents. He was a bum thrashing machine. And he ducked some of the tougher contenders too. This is padding on a different level from today where a top fighter is expected to nearly always fight top competition.

Robinson was one of the greats of the sport but it doesn't really make any sense to compare him to a modern boxer.

[Joe Beamish]

people have already listed his best wins so im not gona bother doing it again.

how good was duran? he lost practically all his biggest fights except the 1 where he moved up to 147 against srl

srl lost his 2nd fight against hearns, he even admits it

the haggler fight is still up for debate to this date and u say armstrong was way past it well isnt the reason srl fought haggler because he saw him losing it?

now ali
liston fights = dubious circumstances
frasier = blind in 1 eye, pretty much only great fighter he beat was ali
ken norton = did he even win?
patterson = was he even a heavyweight?
foreman = loosened ropes, would he have won without it?
henry cooper = angelo cut his gloves to buy him time after knockdown

like i said before, everyones resume can be made to look ****.

You don't get it. The goal isn't to make Robinson's resume look like crap. That would absurd.

The goal is to question the constant, knee-jerk assumption that SRR is the best fighter of all time -- because everyone says so. To question it with an open mind.

He COULD be the best. I'm not sure.

I agree with you about Ali's dubious wins. But he DID beat:

Frazier
Forman
Liston

Any way you cut it. Those are huge victories.

Leonard has 4 victories that I don't believe Robinson can match EVEN if you think Armstrong was prime.

MOST the guys SRR beat were old school white brawlers. I'm aware that Kid Gavilan doesn't fit that description. The return victory against Turpin doesn't either. But LaMotta is NOT on par with Hagler. (And many people think LaMotta won two of those battles -- most of which were quite close.)

[-MAKAVELLI-]

its called research...actual research if you really want to find the truth


you can't just say 'that aint it cuz i aint seen it'


unless of course, you're a ******..which im kinda getting a vibe for

[ElMeroChingon]

Want to compare resume's with your "current TBE"?

[Cinci Champ]

i think its just one those things like babe ruth where no matter how good someone is since robinson that he will always still be considered the best whether he is or not. Plus you have to take into account just how many fights he had. I mean its like Ali both Ali and robinson were great if not the best ever but even saying that they both are still probably considered better then they actually were they just have that mystique but there are some fights u can still watch of robinson its not like there is none to be seen

[kiDynamite92]

Hagler was robbed of a draw maybe. Hagler was completely unable to impose his will on him. And you've got LaMotta and Basilio equal to Hagler?? That's an eccentric point of view, highly unusual. Can't see it. They lost a million fights and had nothing like Hagler's skills. Not even close.

Gavilán was SRR's best victory (twice) in my view. Yep. Better than Hearns? Why? Maybe close.

What slick boxer like Benitez did SRR beat? Any names?

Duran was incredibly good even at WW and Leonard beat him fair and square the second time.

SRR: Gavilán, Basilio, LaMatta and an old Armstrong
SRL: Duran, Benitez, Hearns, Hagler

Leonard beat the better guys.

Of course he couldn't impose his will on a guy who was moving so much. But Hagler was given no credit for his bodywork in that fight. I like most observers had it a victory for Hagler. Basillio and Lamota were great champions, it's absurd to find a list of the top 10 greatest middleweights ever without wither of their names on it and SRR defeating them convincingly is more impressive then srl highly dubious victory over Hagler. Also yes basillo and LaMotta lost a lot of fights but they fought 3x more then Hagler ever did. You're bound to turn up flat now and then.


Kid Gavilan I felt was just overall a better opponent. Don't get me wrong, hearns was amazing but he had a very shaky jaw that Robinson would bust easily.

If you give srl credit for beating an out of prime Duran then you should do the same for SRR for beating Armstrong who is better Duran.

SRR fought guys much better then Benitez eg angott, fullmer, turpin.