Could Bruce Lee beat a Professional Boxer?

[hectari]

Bruce Lee had great movement like Ali, his footwork was amazing he was so fleet footed and on the balls of his feet, if he stick and moved he would have been a very good willie pep type boxer and defense guy like Rigo.

[RSBonos]

no and zzzzzzz

some local kid at a YMCA boxing gym knocks him out.

[RSBonos]

He's only underestimated in boxing. But that's okay. The vast majority of boxing fans are stuck in a 20th century mindset, when people thought that you only needed to punch to be the best all-around fighter. As I said before, he's a God in the MMA world, which is what actually counts in the modern world.

MMA fans love him because he was the god of tma which a lot of those people grew up on.

Besides never have been a professional fighter he also didn't know much about grappling. Oh you mean there is a picture of him doing an armbar?...oh ok he was the greatest of all time then...

How embarrassing for MMA to have him in their new game.

[MysticNinjaJay]

He's only underestimated in boxing. But that's okay. The vast majority of boxing fans are stuck in a 20th century mindset, when people thought that you only needed to punch to be the best all-around fighter. As I said before, he's a God in the MMA world, which is what actually counts in the modern world.

I post on Sherdog and have seen a lot of Bruce Lee threads. The perception of his skills are very mixed. Some people think he was good. Others say that without a fight record he didn't prove anything and question whether he had a takedown defense or a ground game. Both Boxing and MMA fans also question his durability. How well could he take a punch?

Opinions on Bruce Lee seem to range from he was the best fighter ever to he could be beaten by any journeyman in a full-contact combat sport. As for his documented fights some people give more credence to the account of Wong Jack Man over the outcome of their fight. People question whether Gary Elms even existed. Someone told me recently they didn't believe that Bruce Lee had any street fights at all.

One of the most interesting posts I came across on Sherdog was by a poster who identified himself as Flane Walker. He says he knew Bruce Lee and sparred with him regularly. Word is that he was able to get Bruce Lee to the ground in their sparring matches.

Check out one of his posts:

Hello: I am Flane Walker. I and Bruce Lee were friends in the Late 60's and early 70's. He trained hard and he had the money to do so. I sparred with him usually 3 or 4 times a week. He was fast and he was strong. He liked sparring with me because I was 6'3" tall and weighed 214 lbs. I worked out a lot also. Now for the people who think Bruce was undefeatable, he was just a man. He got his points, and I got mine. I did take him down with a sweep, but it was nothing spectacular. I really do not know why that has even come up. I bloodied his nose once too. But he popped me in the ear, and he gave me a black eye. Just training. I will not brow beat the name of Bruce Lee. He is not here to defend himself, and that would simply be dishonorable. Some have said, I came out of the wood work. I was in Blackbelt ****zine in 1975. I have been in Karate illustrated 4 times, Black belt 6 times and various other ****zines through the years. I was personal friends with Edwin Hamile (president of JKA) and taught at his Dojo in Temple City. My best friend is Tiger Yang of Moo Yea Do and I was vice president of his organization for 3 years. I was extremely good friends with Bong Soo Han, and trained with him for a number of years. I started martial arts lessons under my father in 1955. I continued to train under his instructor in Southern Calif. in 1967, that's how I met Bruce Lee. I trained a little with Ark Wong who was good friends with my master. I also trained under Chin Ik Wu of Wu Tai Chi. So I come out of the woodwork? I beg your pardon. Who are YOU! I have been here. I will continue to be here. I am now in Houston Texas. If you want to work out, contact me at fwalker@bigskytel.com. We will see if I can still move a little.

I have fought this damned fight for 38 years, and I am sick and tired of it. Stop talking, come by and I will show you how an old grey haired man can move.


Flane Walker

I find the Bob Wall interview to be really interesting. The one where Wall says Bruce Lee sparred full-contact and got the best of Karate world champions. Unfortunately it came without a source but it looks real to me. There's an interview with Jim Kelly where he describes Bruce Lee as the Michael Jordan of sparring. There's only one public video in existence of Bruce Lee sparring that I know of which purportedly feature Bruce Lee vs. Louis Delgado. You don't see much and they are wearing a lot of padding.

I don't even know who is who but here it is:

MMA fans love him because he was the god of tma which a lot of those people grew up on.

Besides never have been a professional fighter he also didn't know much about grappling. Oh you mean there is a picture of him doing an armbar?...oh ok he was the greatest of all time then...

How embarrassing for MMA to have him in their new game.

Actually Bruce Lee knew a lot about grappling. He trained with Gene Lebell and incorporated 33 grappling moves in to Jeet Kune Do. You can see grappling in his movies such as the opening fight scene in Enter the Dragon and the fight scene with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar in The Game of Death.

If you don't know who Gene Lebell is he's a national champion Judoka who defeated a Boxer in an MMA style matchup.




I think it's great that Bruce Lee is in the new UFC game. I think the game is going to sell well because of him. So many people want to play as Bruce Lee.

[New England]

Wow here we go...When does the ******ity cease?

First off MMA is not real fighting! Real fighting is when you have no gloves, you do not know if there is a knife somewhere, how many people will be attacking, etc. So let dispel that little turd Flush......

Bruce Lee was not a boxer. Wing Chun does not function with gloves, you need a direct connection of hand to surface....Bruce Lee was not interested in being a professional fighter he was a teacher testing his techniques....The Dog Brothers (please Google them) are awesome fighters. They might well fight mma rules to test out a technique, but there purpose is combat....This is how we used to fight as well when I was fighting martial arts.

Bruce Lee was a teacher...and no he was not only an actor. He learned from some of the same people who are very well recieved in MMA, like Gene Lebell for example. If Bruce Lee fought a boxer in the street he would not fight in th manner of a fellow boxer.

So much ******ity it never ceases.

lee taught techniques called "the unstoppable punch, the one inch punch, and the nontelegraphed punch."

yes, those are actual bruce lee techniques.


he was a snake oil salesman and an actor. if you're actually a fighter, with the drive to fight other men and prove you are the best, you don't squander yoru physical prime in an acting studio. you fight.


bruce lee has a reputation built on rumors spread by people who were his friends. he also has movies.
you seriously think this guy was constantly getting into high level fights and none of them were filmed?



his fight with "wong jack man." is probably his most famous. of course it isn't filmed. wong jack man is obviously a nobody. if you listen to the bruce lee people, lee won easily in a few minutes. if you listen to the wong jack man people, it was a long fight, around 20 minutes. lee changed the way he did things after the fight, and this is documented. he also ducked a rematch that wong jack man called for in a newspaper.

sounds like a great fighter to me, doe.

[MysticNinjaJay]

lee taught techniques called "the unstoppable punch, the one inch punch, and the nontelegraphed punch."

yes, those are actual bruce lee techniques.

Those were demonstrations. Bruce Lee was showing the speed of his techniques. If you look at what he actually taught as a Martial Art you see that his approach was simplicity and directness. He taught to train against a resisting opponent and intercept their attacks (Jeet Kune Do = Way of the Intercepting Fist).

Demonstration of Unstoppable Punch




Demonstration of Kung Fu




Demonstrations of Jeet Kune Do

he was a snake oil salesman and an actor. if you're actually a fighter, with the drive to fight other men and prove you are the best, you don't squander yoru physical prime in an acting studio. you fight.

Bruce Lee wasn't interested in proving himself in competition. He was a Martial Artist. He focused on learning and teaching. Once he was discovered and went in to acting there was no time for competing in tournaments. Besides the Martial Arts tournaments of his time were primarily point fighting. Bruce Lee didn't approve of point Karate because he didn't feel that it accurately simulated a real fight. He was interested in preparing for a street fight.

He had a great reputation in the Martial Arts community. World champion fighters sought his instruction and those that saw him spar say he was incredible.

bruce lee has a reputation built on rumors spread by people who were his friends. he also has movies.
you seriously think this guy was constantly getting into high level fights and none of them were filmed?

I would have loved to see these private sparring matches that Bruce Lee was alleged to have been in. We know that he taught and trained with esteemed professional fighters such as Chuck Norris, Joe Lewis and Bob Wall. I imagine that part of the training involved sparring. It wasn't just hitting pads. But this was private training. Martial Arts wasn't like it was today. Unless you competed you weren't going around video taping sparring sessions and showing everybody as someone could be easily embarrassed.

Bob Wall is on record saying that Bruce Lee and himself sparred on the set of Enter the Dragon and that their sparring session was recorded but the woman who recorded them won't release the footage to the public.



Bob Wall: You know at the time, to us, we didn’t understand these young fighters, you don’t think when you’re a young world champion that, everything is years out there, so sure, now we’re smart, and now I’d love to have a copy of it. Somebody’s got it out there. The only film I know of that was shot of Bruce Lee was shot by Ahna Capri, on the set of ETD. In it we sparred for about 10 minutes.

MPM: Oh really? This hasn’t been released to the public, I take it?

Bob Wall: Well she’s got a problem. I had offered her a pretty good chunk of money so that Freddy Weintraub could put it in “Curse of the Dragon” and she turned him down. But she can’t sell because she has to have releases. She can sell it to a private collector but she want 65 grand for it. Its not worth 65 grand. Its about 12 minutes of film and about 5 minutes of Bruce , us sparring…

MPM: So you have to put it into some kind of documentary…

Bob Wall: Well, I’m in the film, I have to sign a release. Am I going to sign one for free? Is Warner Bros. going to sign one for free? It was shot on a Warner Bros. set. Is Bruce Lee’s widow going to sign one for free? Is Freddy Weintraub going to sign one for free? And all the people in it? You can’t just go out and sell stuff. So she’s got a private film that she can only view privately.

MPM: That sucks!

Bob Wall: I tried to get it and I had her appeal. They would have given her a nice chunk of change and she wouldn’t go for it. She filmed it in ’73 and still hasn’t been able to sell it. If she ever does sell it and whoever buys it will be sued. So it’s unfortunate. The same thing applies to all the other stuff we did. Nobody can sell the films of Chuck and I doing the demo and my doing the challenge, without my release. I’m not going to let someone earn money off me for free! So the odds are it will never get sold. A collector might wind up with it and they can show it privately. But if he’s ever charges a dime …

his fight with "wong jack man." is probably his most famous. of course it isn't filmed. wong jack man is obviously a nobody. if you listen to the bruce lee people, lee won easily in a few minutes. if you listen to the wong jack man people, it was a long fight, around 20 minutes. lee changed the way he did things after the fight, and this is documented. he also ducked a rematch that wong jack man called for in a newspaper.

sounds like a great fighter to me, doe.

Let me ask you this....

What sounds more realistic to you for a challenge match with no rules?

A 3 minute chaotic fight as Bruce Lee describes or a 20-25 minute fight that ends in a draw with no one getting seriously hurt?

Do you honestly believe that Wong Jack Man's account is credible? The fight lasted that long with no breaks and no water for the fighters to rehydrate? Please. They would be absolutely exhausted after a couple of minutes of non-stop fighting. Bruce Lee says that he was exhausted after the fight and that he had bruised his hands hitting the back of Wong Jack Man's head. That's the reason that he re-evaluated the effectiveness of his discipline. Bruce Lee was a perfectionist. He wanted to be the best Martial Artist he could be so he sought more effective approaches to fighting and conditioning eventually developing Jeet Kune Do.

As far as the call for a rematch is concerned no one has been able to produce this newspaper that I am aware of. You would think that some Martial Arts historians would be able to track it down. Also Wong Jack Man has been silent about this fight all this time while the Bruce Lee Foundation continues to tell their side of the story saying that he was defeated. If the story isn't accurate why wouldn't a proud Martial Artist want to set the record straight? Doesn't he value his reputation? He could take advantage of the internet and conduct a video interview with somebody giving his account of what happened. I know of no English language interview with Wong Jack Man that has ever been conducted. All of these claims are based on that Michael Dorgan interview with Official Karate ****zine.

One of Wong Jack Man's students, named Rick Wing, did write a book called Showdown in Oakland: The Story Behind the Wong Jack Man - Bruce Lee Fight. I haven't read it yet. It's supposed to have the most detailed insights on the fight ever recorded. I'll have to give it a read sometime but what a read in the Dorgan article was far from convincing.

[Ragnar Lothbrok]

if rod salka can find a way to win 19 times in a professional boxing career, im pretty sure bruce lee can as well. i mean bruce lee can hire al haymon right?

jus sayin.

[RSBonos]

Actually Bruce Lee knew a lot about grappling. He trained with Gene Lebell and incorporated 33 grappling moves in to Jeet Kune Do. You can see grappling in his movies such as the opening fight scene in Enter the Dragon and the fight scene with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar in The Game of Death.

If by train you mean fool around on weekends then sure. I'd be a lot more comfortable if all this god like praise came for Lebell, Helio, people who competed in Vale Tudo, Olympic grappling events etc etc and not some actor.

The UFC game already flopped. So much for Bruce Lee.

As a combat sports fan the Lee love just rubs me the wrong way.

Btw, Lee said himself that Ali, who he looked up too, would handle him.

[dan_cov]

[billeau2]

lee taught techniques called "the unstoppable punch, the one inch punch, and the nontelegraphed punch."

yes, those are actual bruce lee techniques.


he was a snake oil salesman and an actor. if you're actually a fighter, with the drive to fight other men and prove you are the best, you don't squander yoru physical prime in an acting studio. you fight.


bruce lee has a reputation built on rumors spread by people who were his friends. he also has movies.
you seriously think this guy was constantly getting into high level fights and none of them were filmed?



his fight with "wong jack man." is probably his most famous. of course it isn't filmed. wong jack man is obviously a nobody. if you listen to the bruce lee people, lee won easily in a few minutes. if you listen to the wong jack man people, it was a long fight, around 20 minutes. lee changed the way he did things after the fight, and this is documented. he also ducked a rematch that wong jack man called for in a newspaper.

sounds like a great fighter to me, doe.

You turned out to be a real azz you know that? Let me get this straight...you are fighting conjecture with more conjecture? never mind the hundreds of martial artists that vouched for Lee, people like Dan insanto who would fillet you like a fish btw, and his early students who often fought. No but new England knows it all... are you a martial artist? no. I didn't think so.

What can be said about Lee is that he was not a fighter he was a teacher. he taught many people and maintained his abilities to a level where people who know what they are doing, people like the late great Ed Parker, vouched for him.... You remind me of some of the jackoffs over at Bushido. Tell me New England how many martial arts legends vouch for you?