Could Bruce Lee beat a Professional Boxer?

[billeau2]

You are a dimwit, you are not allowed to punch to the back of the head in mma either.

You cant headbutt, break fingers, bite, several strikes are illegal whilst your opponent is on the ground, etc, etc.

As you can see there are many rules in mma as well, which means that it isnt real street fighting.

Unfortunately he is far from the only halfwit regarding MMA.

One can only keep trying to disabuse people of this troubling notion but maybe they have a point, maybe fights really happen like this:

I was at the pub and two fiery fellows decided to have a go...they were full of drink and angry, you could see them looking for something to hit each other with...SUDDENLY the fight angels came, dressed in white they arrived quickly and started to go to work: "no no mate, (the pool cues are put back on the all rack), first off, empty your pockets....(all knives are removed), ok put these on (small boxing gloves are given to each man)." The Angels move the guys to the center of the bar, away from glass, chairs, etc..."so boys anything goes (both guys look at their gloved hands) except....(the angels give a list of prohibited techniques... and finally when one of you gets the uper hand we will break it up before any kicks to the downed man' s head are thrown.... and of course we will not let your cousin, your best friend etc jump in and beat down the loser."

and so it goes another real fight, just like the real fight that happen in MMA occurs in a bar somewhere in a town someplace.

[billeau2]

MMA is both closer to a real fight than Boxing and more useful in a street fight.

It's still a sport with rules, but really how can you dispute this?

MMA allows more techniques than Boxing. The less restrictions on what is allowed in a fight the closer a combat sport is to being a real fight. That's just a logical and factual statement.

Because Mixed Martial Artists know more techniques they are therefore more effective street fighters than Boxers. It is a statistical fact that the majority of street fights end up on the ground. MMA fighters specialize in ground fighting. It's a major part of the sport. Boxers only specializes in punching. There are many aspects of a real fight that Boxing does not prepare you for.

Of the few professional Boxers who have competed in Mixed Martial Arts few have been competitive fights. Royce Gracie destroyed Art Jimmerson. Randy Couture schooled James Toney. Ray Mercer did knockout Tim Sylvia with one punch but he lost to Kimbo Slice (that one is particularly sad as Kimbo was known for bare knuckle Boxing and had only trained in MMA techniques for a short time while Mercer was a former world champion in Boxing).

There are countless videos on Youtube which confirm the statements I've made. Feel free to debate me on this but I don't think there's anything that you can refute.

So because a boxer loses to a Mixed Martial Artist this makes MMA more like real combat? Thats illogical. So, if firemen compete and defeat cops on an obstacle course designed to test overall fitness, that means that firemen are better marathon runners?

Here are some facts, to replace your Utube video analysis....I have trained guys for MMA but its not my specialty. First off, MMA is definitely an asset for kids fighting in the schoolyard. Its too dangerous because chokes and body slams can cause serious injury. But... when it comes to street fighting beyond that scenerio? first off MMA trains guys to find position first when applying a technique. This is great in the ring, a horrible habit on the street. While you are trying to lock in a choke, the guy can be pulling a weapon, etc. MMA trains one to fight one opponent in controlled circumstances. In the street the circumstances are uncontrolled, most ground work goes out the window because of getting head kicked, glass on the ground, cars, etc.

The gloves worn during an mma fight are not realistic. Someone who trains to punch with a naked fist has a lot more impact in reality. Also a lot of gouging set ups etc are foreign to an MMA fighter. And weapons? a martial artist trains to use them and recognize/disarm them. MMA has no answer for this. So MMA is not real fighting. It does help on a certain level....about as much as boxing does, maybe a little more because of the simple fact that statistically a grappler will control a puncher more than a puncher will control a grappler.

[hugh grant]

I think that Bruce Lee was very close to being the complete fighter that Mixed Martial Artists are. What he lacked was the experience of fighting elite competition on a regular basis. For that reason I think he would lose to elite Mixed Martial Artists today but he would have some advantages over an elite Boxer in a street fight.

Not sure you can put the word inexperienced and bruce lee in the same sentence really. Bruce lee was seriously experienced and realistic in real fighting.

Bruce lee certainly sparred with many world champions regularly so he knew where they were compared to himself for sure.

Jim Kelly said nobody could beat bruce lee in bruce lees era. No champion would beat Bruce, because Bruce lee was a level above.

[MysticNinjaJay]

So because a boxer loses to a Mixed Martial Artist this makes MMA more like real combat? Thats illogical. So, if firemen compete and defeat cops on an obstacle course designed to test overall fitness, that means that firemen are better marathon runners?

Here are some facts, to replace your Utube video analysis....I have trained guys for MMA but its not my specialty. First off, MMA is definitely an asset for kids fighting in the schoolyard. Its too dangerous because chokes and body slams can cause serious injury. But... when it comes to street fighting beyond that scenerio? first off MMA trains guys to find position first when applying a technique. This is great in the ring, a horrible habit on the street. While you are trying to lock in a choke, the guy can be pulling a weapon, etc. MMA trains one to fight one opponent in controlled circumstances. In the street the circumstances are uncontrolled, most ground work goes out the window because of getting head kicked, glass on the ground, cars, etc.

The gloves worn during an mma fight are not realistic. Someone who trains to punch with a naked fist has a lot more impact in reality. Also a lot of gouging set ups etc are foreign to an MMA fighter. And weapons? a martial artist trains to use them and recognize/disarm them. MMA has no answer for this. So MMA is not real fighting. It does help on a certain level....about as much as boxing does, maybe a little more because of the simple fact that statistically a grappler will control a puncher more than a puncher will control a grappler.

I'm not saying that MMA is a real fight or that it prepares you for all of the realities of real fighting. You are certainly correct on most of your points.

MMA does not address multiple opponents, weapons, sucker punching, rugged environments (e.g. glass on the floor or objects in the way) etc.

It's a sport with rules and yes bare fists are more dangerous than one with gloves, even the small MMA gloves. My point was that MMA is closer to a real fight than Boxing and more effective in a street fight than Boxing. The fact that it addresses ground fighting is most crucial. You're not going to throw Superman punches and Spinning Kicks in a real fight. You can but I think the most effective techniques that MMA teaches are fighting on the ground and fighting in the clinch. MMA teaches you to defend against takedowns so that you don't end up on your back and if you do it teaches you how to defend yourself off of your back which is very important if you face an opponent who is bigger and stronger than you.

A Martial Artist can train for all of the variables you mentioned that go beyond sport fighting like MMA and Boxing. I agree. And Boxing has its uses in real fights too. I would certainly rather be a trained Boxer than know nothing at all. But if I had a choice between the two I would rather know Mixed Martial Arts.

[Masters01]

Unfortunately he is far from the only halfwit regarding MMA.

One can only keep trying to disabuse people of this troubling notion but maybe they have a point, maybe fights really happen like this:

I was at the pub and two fiery fellows decided to have a go...they were full of drink and angry, you could see them looking for something to hit each other with...SUDDENLY the fight angels came, dressed in white they arrived quickly and started to go to work: "no no mate, (the pool cues are put back on the all rack), first off, empty your pockets....(all knives are removed), ok put these on (small boxing gloves are given to each man)." The Angels move the guys to the center of the bar, away from glass, chairs, etc..."so boys anything goes (both guys look at their gloved hands) except....(the angels give a list of prohibited techniques... and finally when one of you gets the uper hand we will break it up before any kicks to the downed man' s head are thrown.... and of course we will not let your cousin, your best friend etc jump in and beat down the loser."

and so it goes another real fight, just like the real fight that happen in MMA occurs in a bar somewhere in a town someplace.

All this talk (read: pathetic and emotionally charged attempt at wit) is on the ASSUMPTION that weapons will be involved. I guarantee you if you looked at 100 fights in your lifetime, no matter what country you're fron, more than 50 of them will NOT involve weapons and will simply involve the human body of 1 man vs the human body of another man.

Ive seen plenty of bar fights and street fights and in only a few have i seen "pool cues, bottles and knives" being used. Most start with flying fists and end up on the floor, wrestling.

[MysticNinjaJay]

Not sure you can put the word inexperienced and bruce lee in the same sentence really. Bruce lee was seriously experienced and realistic in real fighting.

Oh I'm not saying he was inexperienced. He was a street fighter. He just didn't fight elite fighters on a regular basis like Mixed Martial Artists and Boxers do. Boxing is a more limited form of fighting but Mixed Martial Artists train in nearly everything Bruce Lee knew. I think he would lose to the elite fighters among them.

Bruce lee certainly sparred with many world champions regularly so he knew where they were compared to himself for sure.

I find this claim to be most intriguing. There's an interview circling the internet with Bob Wall who says that Bruce Lee sparred full-contact with world champion fighters and got the better of them. If this is true I think that Bruce Lee's fighting skills should definitely be held in higher esteem but unfortunately the interview came without a source. I know of one interview with Bob Wall who says that he and Bruce Lee sparred on the set of Enter the Dragon. He even says video of it exists but it's in the personal collection of someone who won't release it to the public.

Jim Kelly said nobody could beat bruce lee in bruce lees era. No champion would beat Bruce, because Bruce lee was a level above.

Yes, the words he used were "The Michael Jordan of sparring; beyond Jordan."

I think that Bruce Lee could certainly lose a fight just like anyone else but it's interesting that men like Jim Kelly thought he was the absolute best of his era. Having never competed professionally his fighting skills will always be called in to question but we know enough about him to know that he was a highly skilled Martial Artist who could hold his own in a fight.

[hugh grant]

Oh I'm not saying he was inexperienced. He was a street fighter.

I find this claim to be most intriguing. There's an interview circling the internet with Bob Wall who says that Bruce Lee sparred full-contact with world champion fighters and got the better of them. If this is true I think that Bruce Lee's fighting skills should definitely be held in higher esteem but unfortunately the interview came without a source. I know of one interview with Bob Wall who says that he and Bruce Lee sparred on the set of Enter the Dragon. He even says video of it exists but it's in the personal collection of someone who won't release it to the public.


Yes, the words he used were "The Michael Jordan of sparring; beyond Jordan."

I think that Bruce Lee could certainly lose a fight just like anyone else but it's interesting that men like Jim Kelly thought he was the absolute best of his era. Having never competed professionally his fighting skills will always be called in to question but we know enough about him to know that he was a highly skilled Martial Artist who could hold his own in a fight.

Im not sure what you are trying to get at now. Bruce lees skills would be held to higher esteem if what world champs said about bruce lee are true? What are you implying, are you implying people don't think what the champs are saying is the truth when they admit bruce lee was superior? For Bob Wall to claim bruce lee got the better of champs in full contact sparring is hardly going to shock or surprise anyone is it now?
This is getting a little silly now, because bruce lees fighting skills are already held to a incredibly high esteem and bar. Don't take bruce lee haters talking crap about bruce lees fighting ability as the general consensus of where bruces fighting skills are held! For you to insinuate bruce lees fighting skills aren't held to an incredibly high esteem I would have to call you a troll, and you probably aren't even aware you are trolling.
No one doubts world champs when they say how great bruce lee was, people see them as just being honest, they are hardly being controversial are they? On the ETD set even, bruce lee was witnessed making Bob Wall look mediocre in sparring. So Bob Wall can hardly claim he beat bruce lee now can he? The only controversial people are the ones who tip toed around him while he was alive, and then imply stuff after he dies.

We haven't seen Lee fight, but his skills aren't in question, as the A to Z of the martial art world have vouched for Lee to be otherworldly. We would all liked to have seen Lee fight, but no one doubts he was a great fighter. Bruce is considered the God of martial arts.............rightly or wrongly, either way you can hardly claim he is underated. He is rated where people think he deserves and that is extraordinarily high.
You need to get your point across more eloquently.

[MysticNinjaJay]

Im not sure what you are trying to get at now. Bruce lees skills would be held to higher esteem if what world champs said about bruce lee are true? This is getting a little silly now, because bruce lees fighting skills are already held to a incredibly high esteem and bar. Don't take bruce lee haters talking crap about bruce lees fighting ability as the general consensus of where bruces fighting skills are held! For you to insinuate bruce lees fighting skills aren't held to an incredibly high esteem I would have to call you a troll, and you probably aren't even aware you are trolling.
No one doubts world champs when they say how great bruce lee was, people see them as just being honest, they are hardly being controversial are they? On the ETD set even, bruce lee was witnessed making Bob Wall look mediocre in sparring. So Bob Wall can hardly claim he beat bruce lee now can he? The only controversial people are the ones who tip toed around him while he was alive, and then imply stuff after he dies.

We haven't seen Lee fight, but his skills aren't in question, as the A to Z of the martial art world have vouched for Lee to be otherworldly. We would all liked to have seen Lee fight, but no one doubts he was a great fighter. Bruce is considered the God of martial arts.............rightly or wrongly, either way you can hardly claim he is underated. He is rated where people think he deserves and that is extraordinarily high.
You need to get your point across more eloquently.

You are correct that many credible Martial Artists of that era who knew and trained with Bruce Lee vouch for him. Aside from that one can observe with their own eyes that he was in incredible shape and was extremely fast. It's also notable that he created his own Martial Art that if one studies it will see that it had all of the fundamental elements that are important to real unarmed fighting on the street. There's plenty of evidence that Bruce Lee was an exceptional fighter without seeing him fight.

Still even with all of that information there are doubters, doubters that are even fans of Bruce Lee. It's not just the hardcore haters that question him. People say that we've never seen him fight so we don't truly know how good he was. Some say that without a professional fight record he lacked the experience of an elite fighter. They ask questions like how well he could take a punch or how much grappling he knew. I see doubt in every Bruce Lee thread made about his fighting skills including this one. Make no mistake I am a Bruce Lee fan and I think he was a good fighter but after years of hearing questions about his fighting ability even I have come to question how good he really was.

There are questions about how effective a fighter he was due to lack of fighting experience against elite fighters and people also make an issue out of his size. They say that weight classes are there for a reason. When skills are comparable size matters in a fight.

Check out this quote from an interview with Skipper Mullins on that issue:

Question
What is your honest impression about Bruce Lee, some people still say, he was an excellent theorist and coach, but due to his small size wasn’t that effective against bigger men?

Skipper
I truly liked and admired Bruce. I worked with him some and he helped me in my foot movement and back fist. Bruce probable weighed 135 pounds at most, but he could hit like a mule. I know, because he knocked me under Sharon Tate’s barstool at Columbia Pictures in 1968. Bruce never confronted any big men to my knowledge. There are stories out there, but none I personally know of. I will say this; I would have picked Bruce in any street situation. He had the knowledge and the attitude to carry him through anything.

That kind of information makes me think more highly of Bruce Lee's fighting skills. I mean I can look at images of him and tell he was strong but to hear a world class Martial Artist say he hits like a mule from personal experience brings me closer in my mind to the reality of how good he was. If the Bob Wall interview is authentic it means that Bruce Lee did more fighting with elite competition than people think. If he regularly did full-contact sparring with world champions and got the better of them that would mean that he himself was without question a world class Martial Artist. I don't think I'm mincing words here or trolling. I'm trying to distinguish myth from reality.

[jsmith_tsu]

Wow. I thought Bruce Lee was universally considered one of the greatest fighters ever. I tell you what I would never beat against him.

U saw what he did to Chuck Norris

[hugh grant]

You are correct that many credible Martial Artists of that era who knew and trained with Bruce Lee vouch for him. Aside from that one can observe with their own eyes that he was in incredible shape and was extremely fast. It's also notable that he created his own Martial Art that if one studies it will see that it had all of the fundamental elements that are important to real unarmed fighting on the street. There's plenty of evidence that Bruce Lee was an exceptional fighter without seeing him fight.

Still even with all of that information there are doubters, doubters that are even fans of Bruce. Lee It's not just the hardcore haters that question him. People say that we've never seen him fight so we don't truly know how good he was. Some say that without a professional fight record he lacked the experience of an elite fighter. They ask questions like how well he could take a punch or how much grappling he knew. I see doubt in every Bruce Lee thread made about his fighting skills including this one. Make no mistake I am a Bruce Lee fan and I think he was a good fighter but after years of hearing questions about his fighting ability even I have come to question how good he really was.

There are questions about how effective a fighter he was due to lack of fighting experience against elite fighters and people also make an issue out of his size. They say that weight classes are there for a reason. When skills are comparable size matters in a fight.

Check out this quote from an interview with Skipper Mullins on that issue:





That kind of information makes me think more highly of Bruce Lee's fighting skills. I mean I can look at images of him and tell he was strong but to hear a world class Martial Artist say he hits like a mule from personal experience brings me closer in my mind to the reality of how good he was. If the Bob Wall interview is authentic it means that Bruce Lee did more fighting with elite competition than people think. If he regularly did full-contact sparring with world champions and got the better of them that would mean that he himself was without question a world class Martial Artist. I don't think I'm mincing words here or trolling. I'm trying to distinguish myth from reality.

You are trolling again. Bruce lee fans have no doubt about how great Bruce lee was. They are the ones afterall who claim Lee was unbeatable and the greatest fighter in history. The ones who play the im a fan of bruce lee game, and I don't think he was as great as people say, are doing just that, playing a game and manufacturing an image of what they think of Bruce, similar to what you are possibly doing now. Because whole world knows Bruce lee was a great, great fighter. If Jon Jones, Fedor and just about everyother MMA fighter can acknowledge how damn great Bruce lee was, nobody else has any excuse.
Talk about his chin and other stuff like that is neither here or there. There is no need to talk about sources for Bob Wall interview. When Bob Wall says what he says, only idiots would feign or pretend to be shocked that he would say such a thing. Bruce Lees credibility as a fighter don't rest on Bob Walls words. You have Jim Kelly saying he knows who bruce lee sparred with and was untouchable, you've got Skipper Mullins, Ernst Lieb, Delgado and countless others. What they say doenst surprise anyone or shock anyone. Its not controversial what they say. What is controversial is Joe Lewis posthumously saying Lee was not a fighter. Things that are controversial are things like Vic Moore saying he could stop all of Lees attacks when Vids suggest otherwise.

He was human though, you are right there. So what. He might have been able to be beat by someone on any given day as well or rather an off day. So what, it don't matter.
There is no need to talk about Bruce lee could have been respected more as a fighter if what Bob Wall says is true talk! That is just garbage talk and way of thinking. If you get rid of some of the bruce lee myth, you are still left with a great fighter, so you are getting your nickers in a twist over nothing.

Bruce lee is respected, revered enough to last a lifetime 10 lifetimes, and enough for anyone.