Putting Golovkin's name in the same sentence with Mayweather is an insult to boxing

[deejd]

ok, so you were comparing macklins solid losing performance with berto. what? dude. barker had a solid losing performance against martinez. murray had a solid losing performance against martinez. & macklin did better against martinez (vs Guerrero did mayweather) only because martinez is no where near as dominant as mayweather.......numerous guys have had solid losing performances against martinez (thats no accomplishment) robert Guerrero has A better resume then macklin & he's a much more solid fighter. shrink macklin into a welterweight & place him in the ring with mayweather.....he would probably get ko'd & do a hell of a lot worse then Guerrero. people would call him a bum (that mayweather cherry picked just to look good against) comparing macklin to Guerrero is a joke............Guerrero is not some ATG but without a doubt he's better then macklin.

power.......


martinez himself doesn't have marvelous power. in fact he has a much lower ko percentage.......when you fight guys like cotto, mosley, alverez, delahoya. these are guys with pretty sturdy chins........certain guys will knock down your ko percentage. mayweather has above average power. martinez has above average power..........p4p their around the same in the power department. martinez had a mini surge of knock outs but like i said. it varies from the level of comp & opponent to opponent........


also.........i really don't care about ggg's amateur record. the guy said that he has 5 years left in boxing. he's 31 years old without a signature win. do i want to see him waste that time trying to clean out a weak crap division? no. my solution to everyone low balling him and not wanting to give him fights at middleweight (as you say) is simply move up.


"Can you please clearly explain why Canelo deserved to be mentioned in the same sentence as Floyd but GGG doesn't"

canelo has campaigned at weltweight and jr middleweight. (which golovkin has not) canelo has a better record with his last win being trout. (golovkin is 31 years old and his best win is mathew freaking macklin) not only that but canelo has a much bigger name........i wouldn't say canelo deserved to be mentioned in the same class as mayweather but he's definitely a more worthy opponent. we haven't even seen ggg at jr. weltwereight & his trainer will talk crap all day about him fighting at jr. middle but they refuse to actually move him down there. instead they had jr. middleweights coming up to him. (what type of crap is that) that shows you that they had no intention of fighting at jr middle because if they did they could of just fought ishida or Rosado at jr. middle......

You couldn't have made it any easier. If somebody cannot comprehend what was just explained in your response, it's stanning, point blank.

[JPsol]

Well ... I wouldn't exactly call Macklin trash. He fought Martinez and Sturm pretty even. Anybody that wins even 5-6 rounds against Martinez is not trash.

Now -- I don't think GGG has anywhere near proved himself to be an ATG like Mayweather; and I am not in any way comparing GGG to Mayweather or any other HOFer or ATG. (Had to be said as the topic is about comparing GGG to Mayweather.)

Back to GGG. I consider the Macklin fight to be GGGs first real test. Was he nothing but hype? Did he belong? The answer is yes - and not because he beat Macklin but in the way he did it. That 3 punch combination he used was beautiful: left at 3/4 speed (to keep Macklin's gloves up), a right for the same reason - and then a quick shift to the left and hook to the body that brings down Macklin.

OM F**KING G. That was awesome.

Now Stevens is also a good test. Stevens has faster hands and good pop. Let's see what happens.

No one should be saying that GGG is an ATG. He hasn't done **** in that regard. But I think he's worth watching.

GGG definitely shouldn't be classified as an ATG at this point (he has a long way to go), but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be put in consideration as a possible opponent for Floyd at a catchweight. He looks like a major talent and has promise, but it is way too soon to suggest he is some ATG. Mayweather has undeniably proven a lot more.

However, I'm also highly confident that guys like Guerrero, Ortiz, Khan (apparently being strongly considered for a fight), etc. will not be viewed as ATGs or anything close to that.

[Bushidō]

GGG is the real deal, get over it.

[bklynboy]

GGG definitely shouldn't be classified as an ATG (at least not yet), but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be put in consideration as a possible opponent for Floyd at a catchweight. He looks like a major talent and has promise, but it is way too soon to suggest he is some ATG. Mayweather has undeniably proven a lot more.

However, I'm also highly confident that guys like Guerrero, Ortiz, Khan (apparently being strongly considered for a fight), etc. will not be viewed as ATGs or anything close to that.

My knock against Mayweather (and this is when we start comparing him to ATGs such as the Willi Pep, Benny Leonard, Joe Gans, Roberto Duran, Alexis Arguello, JCC, Niccolino Locche, Henry Armstrong, SRR, SRL is that Mayweather has not cleared out any division (except maybe Super Featherweight).

As a fan I want Mayweather to fight 4-5 times next year and the year after and fight all comers (f**k landing the biggest purse) and clear out the Welterweights (and Light Welter or Light Middle).

That won't happen.

[bklynboy]

GGG is the real deal, get over it.

I think he is. But now he has to prove it.

[Godsfly]

Again, I was comparing Macklin to Berto and GGG to Guerrero/Canelo. In any case, GGG destroyed/dominated Macklin, while the same cannot be said of Guerrero against Berto or arguably Aydin. I would also argue Macklin did better than Barker, but I think Murray did better than both. Regardless of all this, I will maintain that GGG is a better talent than Guerrero and arguably Canelo (he's definitely still promising given his age). It's as simple as the eye test in this instance.

I would also point out Martinez is bigger at MW than Floyd is at WW, so if they have the same P4P power in your eyes then it would follow that Martinez would be more powerful at MW than Floyd is at WW.

First off, they were going to fight Rosado (who is actually the same size if not bigger than Golovkin) at a catchweight of 158, but he requested the fight at 160. I didn't really pay attention to the Ishida fight since that was clearly just a keep busy affair. In both cases though Golovkin was the draw, so he isn't going to move far from his natural weight if he does not have to. I don't doubt he would seriously consider fighting Canelo or maybe even a Trout at 154 (the reason I say seriously consider is because all of them are about the same size on fight night, so there isn't necessarily a reason for it not to be at say 157). Who knows maybe he'll decide to move down instead of moving up soon, but I doubt that.

Shrink Macklin into a welterwight? Who knows what he would be like. Does he have P4P the same quickness and speed? How can I really judge this?

Again, what had Trout really proven in the 154 lb. division against top flight competition? You don't care about GGG's amateur career, but that is partially why Canelo has a "better record". Canelo had a very short amateur career and has been able to get a lot of the fights he or his team wants because he is Mexican. Golovkin had the relatively long (and successful) amateur career, his troubling stint at Universum, and does not have a built-in fan base like Canelo.

I already mentioned my thoughts about him moving up to 168, so it probably isn't necessary to go over it again.

the bottom line...........robert Guerrero p4p is better then macklin. has the better wins. is a more solid fighter. golovkin destroyed macklin & guerrero couldn't knock out berto? Hummm maybe thats because golovkin is a power puncher...... (but the berto score wasn't close)

if you consider golovkin better then canelo based on the "eye test" theres no words.........i mean do you know what you just said? A eye test is make believe. a joke. thats called judging a fighter based on your heart & emotions rather then real life accomplishments & quality wins. (and this is the problem with ggg's fan base) giving so much credit to a guy who's done nothing professionally. canelo's record is better then ggg's and he's only 23 years old. (i can't repeat that enough)

also rasado said F the 2 pounds. lets just fight at 160 because 158 is basically still 160............if they wanted the fight with rasado at 154 they would have gotten it. if they wanted the fight with ishida at 154 they would have gotten it. if they were even half way serious about moving down to 154 (to pursue a big money fight) they would have fought those 2 guys at 154. hell they could still go down...........but they're not because they were never actually serious about campaigning at 154. i can bet that you will never in your life actually see golovkin below middleweight.

austin trout.........what did austin trout do? austin trout has wins over miguel cotto & Delvin Rodriguez. he also gave a good showing of himself against canelo. austin trout is a better win then anything ggg has on his record. macklin? compared to trout?



heres the thing. golovkin is gonna have to step it up big time........his fans settle for less. there needs to be more pressure on golovkin to step it up. if he's serious about retiring in 5 more years give us something thats actually quality. why not fight kessler or froch. i mean you won't go down to jr. middleweight because you refuse to campaign below your natural weight..........ortiz has a better resume then proska, gurrero has a better resume then macklin, & canelo at 23 years old has a better resume then golovkin.

it's time for this guy to move up (since everyone is ducking him at middleweight) and step it up. i wouldn't want to see him spend the rest of his 5 years clearing out a crap division. if he moves up theres MUCH better fighters who will not duck him.

[Godsfly]

You couldn't have made it any easier. If somebody cannot comprehend what was just explained in your response, it's stanning, point blank.

i don't know how i could break it down any clearer for these guys about the great ggg

[Godsfly]

GGG is the real deal, get over it.

[Frank Ducketts]

ok, so you were comparing macklins solid losing performance with berto. what? dude. barker had a solid losing performance against martinez. murray had a solid losing performance against martinez. & macklin did better against martinez (vs Guerrero did mayweather) only because martinez is no where near as dominant as mayweather.......numerous guys have had solid losing performances against martinez (thats no accomplishment) robert Guerrero has A better resume then macklin & he's a much more solid fighter. shrink macklin into a welterweight & place him in the ring with mayweather.....he would probably get ko'd & do a hell of a lot worse then Guerrero. people would call him a bum (that mayweather cherry picked just to look good against) comparing macklin to Guerrero is a joke............Guerrero is not some ATG but without a doubt he's better then macklin.

power.......


martinez himself doesn't have marvelous power. in fact he has a much lower ko percentage.......when you fight guys like cotto, mosley, alverez, delahoya. these are guys with pretty sturdy chins........certain guys will knock down your ko percentage. mayweather has above average power. martinez has above average power..........p4p their around the same in the power department. martinez had a mini surge of knock outs but like i said. it varies from the level of comp & opponent to opponent........


also.........i really don't care about ggg's amateur record. the guy said that he has 5 years left in boxing. he's 31 years old without a signature win. do i want to see him waste that time trying to clean out a weak crap division? no. my solution to everyone low balling him and not wanting to give him fights at middleweight (as you say) is simply move up.


"Can you please clearly explain why Canelo deserved to be mentioned in the same sentence as Floyd but GGG doesn't"

canelo has campaigned at weltweight and jr middleweight. (which golovkin has not) canelo has a better record with his last win being trout. (golovkin is 31 years old and his best win is mathew freaking macklin) not only that but canelo has a much bigger name........i wouldn't say canelo deserved to be mentioned in the same class as mayweather but he's definitely a more worthy opponent. we haven't even seen ggg at jr. weltwereight & his trainer will talk crap all day about him fighting at jr. middle but they refuse to actually move him down there. instead they had jr. middleweights coming up to him. (what type of crap is that) that shows you that they had no intention of fighting at jr middle because if they did they could of just fought ishida or Rosado at jr. middle......

Damn. You doin it like that P?

[JPsol]

the bottom line...........robert Guerrero p4p is better then macklin. has the better wins. is a more solid fighter. golovkin destroyed macklin & guerrero couldn't knock out berto? Hummm maybe thats because golovkin is a power puncher...... (but the berto score wasn't close)

if you consider golovkin better then canelo based on the "eye test" theres no words.........i mean do you know what you just said? A eye test is make believe. a joke. thats called judging a fighter based on your heart & emotions rather then real life accomplishments & quality wins. (and this is the problem with ggg's fan base) giving so much credit to a guy who's done nothing professionally. canelo's record is better then ggg's and he's only 23 years old. (i can't repeat that enough)

also rasado said F the 2 pounds. lets just fight at 160 because 158 is basically still 160............if they wanted the fight with rasado at 154 they would have gotten it. if they wanted the fight with ishida at 154 they would have gotten it. if they were even half way serious about moving down to 154 (to pursue a big money fight) they would have fought those 2 guys at 154. hell they could still go down...........but they're not because they were never actually serious about campaigning at 154. i can bet that you will never in your life actually see golovkin below middleweight.

austin trout.........what did austin trout do? austin trout has wins over miguel cotto & Delvin Rodriguez. he also gave a good showing of himself against canelo. austin trout is a better win then anything ggg has on his record. macklin? compared to trout?



heres the thing. golovkin is gonna have to step it up big time........his fans settle for less. there needs to be more pressure on golovkin to step it up. if he's serious about retiring in 5 more years give us something thats actually quality. why not fight kessler or froch. i mean you won't go down to jr. middleweight because you refuse to campaign below your natural weight..........ortiz has a better resume then proska, gurrero has a better resume then macklin, & canelo at 23 years old has a better resume then golovkin.

it's time for this guy to move up (since everyone is ducking him at middleweight) and step it up. i wouldn't want to see him spend the rest of his 5 years clearing out a crap division. if he moves up theres MUCH better fighters who will not duck him.

I apologize, but I don't understand why you keep on comparing Guerrero to Macklin when I was actually comparing him to GGG. Again, I was comparing Macklin's close loss to Martinez and performance against Sturm with Berto's disappointing performances every time he stepped up against better competition. I recognize Floyd has proven far more as a professional fighter than Golovkin has, so I don't know what you are trying to prove by comparing Macklin to Guerrero. My point about dominance/destruction isn't that Guerrero failed to knock out Berto, but that his performance wasn't nearly as impressive (in my opinion) as GGG's was against Macklin. Guerrero definitely started strong and won the fight, but Berto had his moments and gave a fairly decent account of himself. IMO, you can't really say the same about Macklin in the GGG fight.

An eye test is a joke? I can see Golovkin's technique, his well-placed shots, his good jab, his power, etc. How else are you supposed to evaluate the skill or technique of a fighter? I'll concede that I may be wrong about him, but from what I have seen of GGG in the amateurs and pros he is a more skilled/complete fighter than Guerrero (I only said he's arguably better than Canelo given his youth). It's not that I think Guerrero is a bad fighter by any means, but I just don't see how he was/is particularly more deserving of a shot against Floyd than GGG (part of my calculation is that GGG will naturally pose more of a challenge since he is bigger though). You're free to disagree and I think GGG will prove me right in the coming years. I don't believe he has the best resume by any means though.

I have nothing in particular against Trout as a fighter, but you're pumping up the guy over GGG (maybe Macklin) because he beat Delvin Rodriguez? Was Rodriguez a top/proven LMW or even ever a top WW (where he campaigned at for years)? You should also keep in mind that Trout is around the same size as GGG on fight night. The Cotto win is nice on paper, but he was coming off a loss, had never really done much at 154 himself, and Trout certainly had the overall size/height advantages. I agree that Trout's showing against Canelo was certainly respectable, but I was originally talking about Trout in the context of Canelo's resume (often faded veterans he had a size advantage over). As such I can't give either of them too much credit for their performances against one another since they both had relatively thin resumes. They had also both benefited from some physical advantages over their opponents.

I also don't think you really addressed the points I made (in my previous post) in regards to why Canelo has the better resume/record.

I don't recall if Golovkin's team ever said he would campaign at 154. I thought their position was that he would fight at the weight if the right opportunity presented itself. In any case, the guys you have been touting or mentioning in that division are around the same size (at least in terms of weight) as him anyway.

I've already said I'm not opposed to GGG moving up and that I think he will shortly if fights with Quillin, Martinez, or potentially Murray don't materialize. I've just mentioned that he will be undersized for the weight if he doesn't put some on and that his desire to unify at MW (his natural weight) is understandable as well.