Comments Thread For: Froch Feels Only Lennox Lewis, Not Calzaghe, Tops Legacy

[bravestone]

Winstone and Conteh are not greater than Froch. Giving guys problems doesn't equal a win. Conteh maybe for the Lopez win but not Winstone.

[IronDanHamza]

I'm kind of swaying around in terms of criteria for said list.

Winstone & Conteh are greater fighters than Froch although his resume is better than theirs. Conteh was one of the more talented British fighters, beat Yaqui Lopez with one hand and arguably Saad Muhammad, again one handed. I guess he's more of a what if kinda fighter.

I rate Winstone highly for his trilogy with Saldivar, although he lost all 3 he definitely proved himself as a worthy challenger and in any other era...

Honestly haven't delved deep enough into either man's resume to build a really accurate picture of their rankings. That isn't a list either, just names thrown together and Froch could probably share the company of Winstone & Conteh, Honeyghan too - but the rest...

I can't see anyway you can logically rank John Conteh and Howard Winstone over Carl Froch.

Having talent, and beating Lopez and having a good fight and losing effort with Saad Muhammad is enough to rank above Carl Froch?

I'll take the guy who's resume is so clearly far superior.

I don't think there's any doubting that Howard Winstone was a very good fighter who proved he was a top fighter but you're telling me you consider Winstone to be ahead of Carl Froch for losing 3 times to Saldivar? And despite being great fights, he lost all 3 of them IMO.

What else outside of those 3 great losing efforts?

There's simply no way. Froch is ahead of those two and I don't see how it's questionable.

[IronDanHamza]

Winstone and Conteh are not greater than Froch. Giving guys problems doesn't equal a win. Conteh maybe for the Lopez win but not Winstone.

I'm sorry but beating Yaqui Lopez doesn't rank you ahead of Froch.

[bravestone]

I'm sorry but beating Yaqui Lopez doesn't rank you ahead of Froch.

Yeah, been awhile since I've seen the Saad bout but I don't remember anything too controversial in it

[IronDanHamza]

Yeah, been awhile since I've seen the Saad bout but I don't remember anything too controversial in it

A lot of people felt Conteh won.

It was a close fight, it certainly could have gone either way.

He was winning the fight and If Conteh had stayed on his feet he'd have won the fight.

[D-MiZe]

Honestly, before Saturday night Carl Froch was #3 in the super-middleweight division and people already considered him one of the greatest British fighters. The revenge he exacted definitely did a lot for his legacy and despite what people say, Kessler was considered by some to be the fresher of the two.

Kessler
Bute
Pascal

Kessler was a good win over a good champion. Bute was another good champion but I think it gets distorted because he had an 0 and the manner in which Froch beat him. Pascal only became a good win in hindsight and when the two meet in December, it's win-win for Froch's legacy.

Apart from those wins, who else does he have? He was stood on his head against one-handed Ward, losing to Taylor if not for the late stoppage and Dirrell made him look silly at times, arguably won the fight too. Even old man Johnson still gave Froch a few problems, Abraham couldn't fucking breathe & brush his teeth at the same time.

I really like Froch, true warrior mentality and trains really hard, his determination is what got him here. His skills are underrated by most, it's his stamina, workrate and heart that has pulled him through many a time.

I'm not being overly critical or in anyway biased, I remember the pre-fight talk before these fights and the general perception. But having the greatest British resume?

[D-MiZe]

I can't see anyway you can logically rank John Conteh and Howard Winstone over Carl Froch.

Having talent, and beating Lopez and having a good fight and losing effort with Saad Muhammad is enough to rank above Carl Froch?

I'll take the guy who's resume is so clearly far superior.

I don't think there's any doubting that Howard Winstone was a very good fighter who proved he was a top fighter but you're telling me you consider Winstone to be ahead of Carl Froch for losing 3 times to Saldivar? And despite being great fights, he lost all 3 of them IMO.

What else outside of those 3 great losing efforts?

There's simply no way. Froch is ahead of those two and I don't see how it's questionable.

Right, they may not rank ahead of Froch, depending on criteria, but they're certainly not out of place in his tier. If you rank on resume alone, he's easily ahead. If you start to take skills and talent into account it becomes a lot closer, it just depends on how you rank.

For example, Winstone's losing efforts to Saldivar are a helluva lot better than Froch's to Ward, a one handed Ward too.

As I said though, it's a mish-mash of criteria in that small list. You'd at least agree that Conteh & Winstone were more talented than Froch, right?

[IronDanHamza]

Honestly, before Saturday night Carl Froch was #3 in the super-middleweight division and people already considered him one of the greatest British fighters. The revenge he exacted definitely did a lot for his legacy and despite what people say, Kessler was considered by some to be the fresher of the two.

Kessler
Bute
Pascal

Kessler was a good win over a good champion. Bute was another good champion but I think it gets distorted because he had an 0 and the manner in which Froch beat him. Pascal only became a good win in hindsight and when the two meet in December, it's win-win for Froch's legacy.

Apart from those wins, who else does he have? He was stood on his head against one-handed Ward, losing to Taylor if not for the late stoppage and Dirrell made him look silly at times, arguably won the fight too. Even old man Johnson still gave Froch a few problems, Abraham couldn't fucking breathe & brush his teeth at the same time.

I really like Froch, true warrior mentality and trains really hard, his determination is what got him here. His skills are underrated by most, it's his stamina, workrate and heart that has pulled him through many a time.

I'm not being overly critical or in anyway biased, I remember the pre-fight talk before these fights and the general perception. But having the greatest British resume?

Pascal being good in hindsight is the same as Abraham and Taylor being not good in hindsight.

Regardless to hindsight, he was the underdog in both of those fights and both of those fighters were Top 5 at 168 at the time he fought them.

He's beaten more ranked fighters than a long list of British "greats". Certainly more than Conteh and Winstone that's for sure. His resume is clearly superior to both of those two anyway regardless.

Not many that have defied the odds as many times as he has either. That counts for something.

Froch doesn't have the greatest British resume ever, nor close. I haven't implied that but having amongst the Top 10 is absolutely reasonable.

[IronDanHamza]

Right, they may not rank ahead of Froch, depending on criteria, but they're certainly not out of place in his tier. If you rank on resume alone, he's easily ahead. If you start to take skills and talent into account it becomes a lot closer, it just depends on how you rank.

For example, Winstone's losing efforts to Saldivar are a helluva lot better than Froch's to Ward, a one handed Ward too.

As I said though, it's a mish-mash of criteria in that small list. You'd at least agree that Conteh & Winstone were more talented than Froch, right?

Certainly, they are more talented.

I'd say Joan Guzman and Adrien Broner are more talented aswell.

Zab Judah is far and beyond the talent level of Froch if we're talking sheer talent.

Talent is probably the very last thing a fighter should be ranked by as far as I'm concerned.

[D-MiZe]

Pascal being good in hindsight is the same as Abraham and Taylor being not good in hindsight.

Regardless to hindsight, he was the underdog in both of those fights and both of those fighters were Top 5 at 168 at the time he fought them.

He's beaten more ranked fighters than a long list of British "greats". Certainly more than Conteh and Winstone that's for sure. His resume is clearly superior to both of those two anyway regardless.

Not many that have defied the odds as many times as he has either. That counts for something.

Froch doesn't have the greatest British resume ever, nor close. I haven't implied that but having amongst the Top 10 is absolutely reasonable.

I actually thought Abraham would beat Froch via KO, I thought if it went the distance Froch would win but I envisaged him catching something big... He put on a master class, no one expected it.

Hindsight or not, the Taylor fight was a fight he was losing. I don't really think you can take too much credit for a fight that he was 4 pts down on (going off judges, don't have a score for that fight saved).

I do not disagree that Froch's resume is better than that of Conteh's & Winstone's. Again, it's what criteria you use for rankings.

Yea, you're telling me, my love for Froch comes from the fact that I've picked against him and every time, barring a couple, he's proved me wrong. An absolute warrior and credit to the sport, such a great character and fighter. I went absolutely nuts when I watched the Froch-Taylor fight on tape delay at midnight, half naked, jumping up and down with my bollocks whirling around.