Prime Tyson vs Prime Wlad - Who wins?

[Steak]

lol, Ross Puritty has the greatest chin of all time? now Ive heard it all...


Douglas wasnt that bad a fighter, by the way. just very unmotivated and lazy(as shown espedcially in his pathetic shape against Holyfield). He had an excellent jab.
never seen someone score double knockdowns with just a jab in a single round.

[hweightblogger]

lol, Ross Puritty has the greatest chin of all time? now Ive heard it all...

Give me your alternatives.

[Steak]

Give me your alternatives.

what? there are so many....
Holmes, Chuvalo and Ali both had better chins...but knowing you youll probably ignore all three of those...

lets...from present day, Oliver McCall and Zeljko Mavrovic both had much better chins than Ross Puritty.

[hweightblogger]

what? there are so many....
Holmes, Chuvalo and Ali both had better chins... but knowing you youll probably ignore all three of those...

Quite the opposite, I didn't ignore these guys at all, it just so happened that their chins are worse than Puritty's.

Maybe you make the mistake of believing that what-was-long-ago called power puncher (e.g. at Ali's times) is what-we-now call a power puncher.

Cleveland Williams was called "hardest hitting heavyweight in the world" and his KOratio at real heavyweight (200x2) is 48% (19 KOs in 39 fights) (= featherfist like Chris Byrd).

The same applies to Joe Frazier (44% KOratio = worse than Chris Byrd) and Earnie Shavers (67%). In fact of the 78 heavyweight world champs Joe Frazier is one of the most featherfisted (he is at the bottom there with Ali and Terrell thus you got these 15-rounders full of windmakers but without a proper KOs).

Earnie Shaver's record against 215+ lbs opponents (= what we nowadays call "genuine heavyweight") is 11 KOs in 23 fights = 47%. You see, in the minds of good-old-time-nostalgists Shavers is more punchy than Vitali Klitschko, but would Shavers box nowadays he would be called a featherfist because of his performance.

Surviving Cleveland Williams, Frazier and Shavers (= what good-old-time fans consider a proof of a hard chin) would be nothing spectacular nowadays.

Once you objectively check how many rounds somebody survived against power punchers (= what I define as 70%+ KOratio in 200x2 fights) Ross Puritty has a far greater record (61 rounds) than Chuvalo (10 rounds) or Larry Holmes (22 rounds).

And it's quite something else to survive against 205lbs opponents (Chuvalo's median opponent weight) or against 212lbs (Holmes' median opponent) than against 227lbs opponents (Ross Puritty's median opponent). Thus Chuvalo plays in a lower league than Ross Puritty and therefore you could maybe call Chuvalo "The cruiser fighter with the hardest chin".

When you compare not their top opponents but their overall opponents then Chuvalo in all of his fights faced opponents who had a total of 354 KOwins in real heavyweight fights (3+ KOs on average) while Ross was exposed to a 12+ KOwinner on average (670 KOwins total).

And despite Chuvalo's longer record he faced as many guys (16) with a KOratio of 50%+ (even including KOs against cruisers!!!) as Ross.

In other words: Ross Puritty not only faced the better TOP KOers but also the better AVERAGE KOers.

Ali's chin is out of the picture by being KDed by a 191lbs cruiser and then vicously by a 188lbs cruiser (smelling salts!) and then by Joe Frazier (a blown up cruiser, median fighting weight 204 lbs).

lets...from present day, Oliver McCall and Zeljko Mavrovic both had much better chins than Ross Puritty.

Zeljko Mavrovic is too early to say. Not only that he is still boxing but he has too little fights so far. When Zeljko survives both Klitschkos (like Puritty) I will take a look again.

I like Oliver McCall. He is a good candidate for "hardest chin" (58 rounds against power punchers, his average opponent has 11+ KOWins in 200x2 fights), but he is also still boxing thus too early to say. Please also note that even if McCall should supersede Puritty's chin it would mean that Wlad and Lennox have been defeated by the hardest chins ever, which is contrary to the "consensus wisdom" that you need to be a power puncher to beat Wlad.

If you have more names then please throw them at me. Since I really like Tony Thompson I will be happy to check their performances for you.

[Steak]

Quite the opposite, I didn't ignore these guys at all, it just so happened that their chins are worse than Puritty's.

Maybe you make the mistake of believing that what-was-long-ago called power puncher (e.g. at Ali's times) is what-we-now call a power puncher.

Cleveland Williams was called "hardest hitting heavyweight in the world" and his KOratio at real heavyweight (200x2) is 48% (19 KOs in 39 fights) (= featherfist like Chris Byrd).

The same applies to Joe Frazier (44% KOratio = worse than Chris Byrd) and Earnie Shavers (67%). In fact of the 78 heavyweight world champs Joe Frazier is one of the most featherfisted (he is at the bottom there with Ali and Terrell thus you got these 15-rounders full of windmakers but without a proper KOs).

Earnie Shaver's record against 215+ lbs opponents (= what we nowadays call "genuine heavyweight") is 11 KOs in 23 fights = 47%. You see, in the minds of good-old-time-nostalgists Shavers is more punchy than Vitali Klitschko, but would Shavers box nowadays he would be called a featherfist because of his performance.

Surviving Cleveland Williams, Frazier and Shavers (= what good-old-time fans consider a proof of a hard chin) would be nothing spectacular nowadays.

Once you objectively check how many rounds somebody survived against power punchers (= what I define as 70%+ KOratio in 200x2 fights) Ross Puritty has a far greater record (61 rounds) than Chuvalo (10 rounds) or Larry Holmes (22 rounds).

And it's quite something else to survive against 205lbs opponents (Chuvalo's median opponent weight) or against 212lbs (Holmes' median opponent) than against 227lbs opponents (Ross Puritty's median opponent). Thus Chuvalo plays in a lower league than Ross Puritty and therefore you could maybe call Chuvalo "The cruiser fighter with the hardest chin".

When you compare not their top opponents but their overall opponents then Chuvalo in all of his fights faced opponents who had a total of 354 KOwins in real heavyweight fights (3+ KOs on average) while Ross was exposed to a 12+ KOwinner on average (670 KOwins total).

And despite Chuvalo's longer record he faced as many guys (16) with a KOratio of 50%+ (even including KOs against cruisers!!!) as Ross.

In other words: Ross Puritty not only faced the better TOP KOers but also the better AVERAGE KOers.

Ali's chin is out of the picture by being KDed by a 191lbs cruiser and then vicously by a 188lbs cruiser (smelling salts!) and then by Joe Frazier (a blown up cruiser, median fighting weight 204 lbs).



Zeljko Mavrovic is too early to say. Not only that he is still boxing but he has too little fights so far. When Zeljko survives both Klitschkos (like Puritty) I will take a look again.

I like Oliver McCall. He is a good candidate for "hardest chin" (58 rounds against power punchers, his average opponent has 11+ KOWins in 200x2 fights), but he is also still boxing thus too early to say. Please also note that even if McCall should supersede Puritty's chin it would mean that Wlad and Lennox have been defeated by the hardest chins ever, which is contrary to the "consensus wisdom" that you need to be a power puncher to beat Wlad.

If you have more names then please throw them at me. Since I really like Tony Thompson I will be happy to check their performances for you.

Sigh. You Klitschko fans and your numbers...

a high KO percentage does not = a power puncher. examples:
Tyrone Brunson: was 19-0 with 19 first round KOs. turns out he was **** and not a strong puncher, he just fought bums.
Lamar Clark: 43 KOs out of his 42 victories. think about that. about 97.5% KO percentage. In no wy was he a harder puncher than any of the top 10 fighters around at the time. incidently, he fought Ali, and lost.

do you get the point yet? their KO percentages are amazing, BUT THEY STILL CANT PUNCH FOR **** COMPARED TO TOP LEVEL GUYS.

by the way...where the **** are you getting your numbers? Joe Frazier's KO percentage=44%?! He had a 73% KO ratio, and thats including his losses....

by the way, Ross got KOed in the first round by a guy with a 30% KO percentage, so even by your logic...
yeah, youre wrong.


Mavrovics career ended a long time ago (1998)by the way, and he already took monster bombs against Lewis, which was why I mentioned him...maybe youre getting him mixed up with someone else....

[hweightblogger]

Sigh. You Klitschko fans and your numbers...

These numbers are called facts. A statement that Ali has a harder chin than Ross is called "fiction".

a high KO percentage does not = a power puncher. examples:
Tyrone Brunson: was 19-0 with 19 first round KOs. turns out he was **** and not a strong puncher, he just fought bums.
Lamar Clark: 43 KOs out of his 42 victories. think about that. about 97.5% KO percentage. In no wy was he a harder puncher than any of the top 10 fighters around at the time. incidently, he fought Ali, and lost.

Aaah, you mention the principle of fighting bums vs fighting non-bums.

It's one of the most important principles and it distinguishes record from resume.

Unfortunately for you kicking bums off the record INCREASES the lead that Ross has:

You know what KOratio Foreman has against non-bums? 61%. Lennox? 66%. Tyson? 65%. Wladimir Klitschko? 83% (and that's even including the southpaws). Vitali? 81%. Thus surviving 21 rounds against both Klitschkos is 3 to 4 leagues above what Chuvalo did (surviving against Foreman for 2.5 rounds).

You see, your interjection leads to the opposite conclusion of what you wanted. And underlines what I have stated in the beginning: Ross Puritty is the heavyweight with the hardest chin ever.

by the way...where the **** are you getting your numbers? Joe Frazier's KO percentage=44%?! He had a 73% KO ratio, and thats including his losses....

I explained it in my post. Frazier is featherfistier than Byrd, smaller than Byrd, shorter arm'ed than Byrd. Oh, and before I forget: Frazier was blind on his left eye.

by the way, Ross got KOed in the first round by a guy with a 30% KO percentage, so even by your logic...
yeah, youre wrong.

I've seen that fight. That was Ross' second fight. Doesn't change the fact that Ross survived Wlad, Vit, Dimitrenko, Morisson and Corrie Sanders. Chuvalo's fight against Foreman fades in comparison.

[Sweet Jesus]

Those are some poll results even Tunney would be proud of.

[Unknown Champ]

No one would win...you really think Prime Tyson would get in the ring with Wlad? Seriously? Dude was afraid of 44 year old foreman, never fought bowe, never fought Lewis. Anyways, Tyson would get frustrated as hell against prime Wlad, he hit hard, but prime Tyson wasnt experienced or mature enough in the ring to handle Wlad, id expect some point deductions as he'd get frustrated taking hits trying to get inside and then being held and then have 245 lbs resting on him. Wlad is much more athletic than people give him credit for. we all know prime vitali would murder tyson, im glad we can agree on that at least.

If Lamon Brewster can, Mike will in a faster and in a more devastating fashion. End thread *****es

[Steelhammer2011]

If Lamon Brewster can, Mike will in a faster and in a more devastating fashion. End thread *****es

Two can play that game

If tomato can Buster Douglas, Danny Williams and Kevin McBride can all destroy Tyson, just imagine what Wlad would do to him

Wlad annihilates Tyson

End of thread

[Sweet Jesus]

Two can play that game

If tomato cans Buster Douglas, Danny Williams and Kevin McBride can all destroy Tyson, just imagine what Wlad would do to him

Wlad annihilates Tyson

End of thread

But has Wlad shown the ability to beat power boxers that come out and unload their arsenal right away?

Because Tyson has shown the ability to beat bums.