Does Joshua starting late at age 18 explain why he was helpless against Usyk in technical boxing?

[billeau2]

[QUOTE=automaton89;n32375418]

Its difficult to answer because just because you started younger doesnt mean you were learning new stuff all the time, or wasnt complacent some of those years. You arent neccesarily productive every year. Or you can be training incorrectly or not smartly.
Some people pick things up faster and if driven to, then you might have something special
[/Quite]


Since athleticism isn't a factor in AJs case, I would like to know how it can crop up in other places

Intelligence. Some people can learn technical skills some people cannot. I've been a teacher of martial arts for years and have noticed certain habits. Some individuals can imitate a technique the first time you show it to them. Other individuals it takes them a long time to imitate something but they get the feel for it right away.

There are individuals who can very quickly understand fine-tune tactical adjustments It is a type of intelligence. A lot of boxers you can see if you've been a teacher, simply don't have that intelligence. Some you can see do have that intelligence and if they start at a relatively young age will be fine.

Joshua lacks the intelligence to seriously understand The Craft on a technical level. Watch a fighter like Tony Bellew or James Tony by comparison to get an idea of a polar opposite.

[billeau2]

If you do something that all 8,186,000,000 people alive are invied to do, that all 8,186,000,000 people have ready access to doing; and that "thing" pays you in excess of $83 million as an enticement to try.......I don't see how coming in number 3 or 4 can be interpreted as having some sort of a deficiency.

Usyk was one of about 3 or 4 men on earth who is capable of beating Joshua under the rules that history claims matter.

Who can say if starting at 12 might have pushed him any higher?
My guess is that he beat out the odds as well as he could.

It really surprises me but despite these odds and you're absolutely right ww... A lot of fighters simply use athletic ability and natural born talent. Makes the odds even more incredible frankly. I don't think it's an age thing.

Sometimes starting at a young age is a benefit. Tyson Fury is a perfect example of coming from a family that was able to really create a healthy respect for the right habits in the sport. Now I believe he started at around 13, if he had started at 18 would it have made a difference? I don't know.

[automaton89]

Intelligence. Some people can learn technical skills some people cannot. I've been a teacher of martial arts for years and have noticed certain habits. Some individuals can imitate a technique the first time you show it to them. Other individuals it takes them a long time to imitate something but they get the feel for it right away.

There are individuals who can very quickly understand fine-tune tactical adjustments It is a type of intelligence. A lot of boxers you can see if you've been a teacher, simply don't have that intelligence. Some you can see do have that intelligence and if they start at a relatively young age will be fine.

Joshua lacks the intelligence to seriously understand The Craft on a technical level. Watch a fighter like Tony Bellew or James Tony by comparison to get an idea of a polar opposite.

It feels like watching Joshua fight Usyk that Aj is trying to be imitate someone else, rather than just be himself. It looks stiff. He claims he did that because he did not survive slugg fests


But he almost got knocked out anyway by usyk so it doesnt matter. Better to hedge your bets

[ELPacman]

I don't think it made any difference. AJ knew how to use his attributes and it got him far. He also gained tons of experience in the ring with all the opponents he went through. Usyk is just another level.

To put that in perspective, who is more of a technical boxer? Fury or AJ? Fury lost to Usyk too... When did Fury start boxing?

[automaton89]

I don't think it made any difference. AJ knew how to use his attributes and it got him far. He also gained tons of experience in the ring with all the opponents he went through. Usyk is just another level.

To put that in perspective, who is more of a technical boxer? Fury or AJ? Fury lost to Usyk too... When did Fury start boxing?

It was a split decision loss and he busted Usyk up badly,

[hugh grant]

[QUOTE=billeau2;n32375448]

Intelligence. Some people can learn technical skills some people cannot. I've been a teacher of martial arts for years and have noticed certain habits. Some individuals can imitate a technique the first time you show it to them. Other individuals it takes them a long time to imitate something but they get the feel for it right away.

There are individuals who can very quickly understand fine-tune tactical adjustments It is a type of intelligence. A lot of boxers you can see if you've been a teacher, simply don't have that intelligence. Some you can see do have that intelligence and if they start at a relatively young age will be fine.

Joshua lacks the intelligence to seriously understand The Craft on a technical level. Watch a fighter like Tony Bellew or James Tony by comparison to get an idea of a polar opposite.

Makes you wonder how he became Olympic champ and beat wlad at times?

[automaton89]

Makes you wonder how he became Olympic champ and beat wlad at times?

That Olympic gold was BS. His opponent got robbed. The wlad win was legit and he had balls back then. He fought like a middleweight against Usyk.

[billeau2]

It feels like watching Joshua fight Usyk that Aj is trying to be imitate someone else, rather than just be himself. It looks stiff. He claims he did that because he did not survive slugg fests


But he almost got knocked out anyway by usyk so it doesnt matter. Better to hedge your bets

Yeah that is because imitating something it's not really the same as doing it naturally and effectively. When Joshua is himself he's a pretty basic guy. Therefore he may well be able to imitate something a trainer shows him what's really own it and make it his own? Different story entirely.

An excellent contrast is the gypsy king. You could see him incorporate what his trainer trained him to do against wilder when he was going for the knockout. He had found a way to make that work for him. AJ just does not have that intelligence to do that.

[billeau2]

[QUOTE=hugh grant;n32375460]

Makes you wonder how he became Olympic champ and beat wlad at times?

Not really. The Olympic amateur style of fighting is extremely basic. Some guys who are very technically gifted can take that style and make it work for them but it's a very different result. USYK for example.

Vlad arguably was never truly exceptional. Certainly he is not technically gifted compared to a fighter like USYK. That's not necessarily to say basic is bad. But there is no consequences against the fighter who cannot take apart a basic fighter.

Remember when Bernard Hopkins fought Kelly pavlik? Those were consequences regarding fighting a gifted technical fighter. With Vlad, Joshua just used his willpower and his natural gifts against a guy whom has a default strategy of hugging his opponent to tie him up so he doesn't get knocked out.

[automaton89]

Yeah that is because imitating something it's not really the same as doing it naturally and effectively. When Joshua is himself he's a pretty basic guy. Therefore he may well be able to imitate something a trainer shows him what's really own it and make it his own? Different story entirely.

An excellent contrast is the gypsy king. You could see him incorporate what his trainer trained him to do against wilder when he was going for the knockout. He had found a way to make that work for him. AJ just does not have that intelligence to do that.

I don't know why you are so hung up on IQ. There's nothing Joshua says that indicates he is any less intelligent than Fury.

To me it just looks like the wrong decision. He should have stuck to the style that makes use of his bodybuilding. Power based.