We might have to accept Hrgovic and Zhang as the best HWs

[dan_cov]

Why are people so impressed by this big clumsy, arm-punching oaf? He is the product of a terrible era and fighting the most limited opposition imaginable that wasn't used to fighting bigger men than themselves.

They constantly talk up his skills. What skills?

He just constantly spams a stutter-step and the same faint over and over, his jab is horrendous attempt of a flick jab. Flick, flick then he falls in behind a horrendous right hand which he pushes before grabbing and leaning on opponents typically exhausting them. Its the same thing over and over again. No variety, he couldn't even adjust vs Ngannou.

Ngannou didn't do anything special - Pressured then stood on the outside not biting on the only two faints Fury has, invited that sloppy right hand then countered/traded and got the better of him throughout.
He'd turn southpaw - didn't need to even battle for foot positioning lol he just stood totally static yet this supposed great boxer couldn't even get his lead foot on the outside. All he had to do from there was come over Furys lead hand which didn't prove any sort of challenge. Seen the same in the Wallin fight and to a lesser extent vs Pianeta yet another southpaw.
Look how effortlessly all 3 backed him to the ropes and trapped him in the corner and two have concrete blocks for feet.

[sunny31]

Why are people so impressed by this big clumsy, arm-punching oaf? He is the product of a terrible era and fighting the most limited opposition imaginable that wasn't used to fighting bigger men than themselves.

They constantly talk up his skills. What skills?

He just constantly spams a stutter-step and the same faint over and over, his jab is horrendous attempt of a flick jab. Flick, flick then he falls in behind a horrendous right hand which he pushes before grabbing and leaning on opponents typically exhausting them. Its the same thing over and over again. No variety, he couldn't even adjust vs Ngannou.

Ngannou didn't do anything special - Pressured then stood on the outside not biting on the only two faints Fury has, invited that sloppy right hand then countered/traded and got the better of him throughout.
He'd turn southpaw - didn't need to even battle for foot positioning lol he just stood totally static yet this supposed great boxer couldn't even get his lead foot on the outside. All he had to do from there was come over Furys lead hand which didn't prove any sort of challenge. Seen the same in the Wallin fight and to a lesser extent vs Pianeta yet another southpaw.
Look how effortlessly all 3 backed him to the ropes and trapped him in the corner and two have concrete blocks for feet.

You can tell you've been loading these feelings up and waiting for something like this to happen so you could unload. Fury had a bad night, he's blown hot and cold throughout his career, it's possible he could be on a decline but its too early to tell after one terrible performance, it was a weird fight and performance, coupled with the fact that Heavyweight has always been like that, a guy with an elite chin and elite power can get surpsingly far.

You talk about him like you've not watched much of his career, hes shown a lot more than you say.

I dont feel he's ever been a particularly good offensive fighter, but defensively he's very good, and his ring IQ is fantastic, his physical and mental toughness is incredible - he reminds me of Tim Bradley in that regard. He has extraordinary stamina for a man of his size. He is definitely versatile, even though you argue the opposite.

Here's the problem, he is an imperfect person to say the least, he is an inconsistent person and not reliable in his personal life and if you're like that personally then that will spill into your professional life too.

The argument you're trying to make is too strong, it's too slanted, no perspective. You probably never took a shine to him. But Fury has been endorsed by the GOAT trainer Manny Steward, who predicted over 10 years ago that Fury would go on to be the dominant heavyweight of this era "if he settles into a solid training programme". I thought Steward was mental when I watched that, but it's proven to be true.

He will beat Usyk, who is a fantastic fighter, it wont be easy but he'll win. And people like you will be scratching your heads, because you expect these guys to be near their best all the time, which most of them are, but Fury is not one of those guys, in 5 fights he will always have a bad one.

I'll come and find you after the fight.

[dan_cov]

You can tell you've been loading these feelings up and waiting for something like this to happen so you could unload. Fury had a bad night, he's blown hot and cold throughout his career, it's possible he could be on a decline but its too early to tell after one terrible performance, it was a weird fight and performance, coupled with the fact that Heavyweight has always been like that, a guy with an elite chin and elite power can get surpsingly far.

You talk about him like you've not watched much of his career, hes shown a lot more than you say.

I dont feel he's ever been a particularly good offensive fighter, but defensively he's very good, and his ring IQ is fantastic, his physical and mental toughness is incredible - he reminds me of Tim Bradley in that regard. He has extraordinary stamina for a man of his size. He is definitely versatile, even though you argue the opposite.

Here's the problem, he is an imperfect person to say the least, he is an inconsistent person and not reliable in his personal life and if you're like that personally then that will spill into your professional life too.

The argument you're trying to make is too strong, it's too slanted, no perspective. You probably never took a shine to him. But Fury has been endorsed by the GOAT trainer Manny Steward, who predicted over 10 years ago that Fury would go on to be the dominant heavyweight of this era "if he settles into a solid training programme". I thought Steward was mental when I watched that, but it's proven to be true.

He will beat Usyk, who is a fantastic fighter, it wont be easy but he'll win. And people like you will be scratching your heads, because you expect these guys to be near their best all the time, which most of them are, but Fury is not one of those guys, in 5 fights he will always have a bad one.

I'll come and find you after the fight.

I think this isn't a case of the warning signs are there and being ignored more a case of people struggling to cope with the reality of how far gone he is. He isn't going to magically turn back the clock.
His legs have gone that is why he joined Sugar Hill and become more aggressive now his reflexes have diminished and his rather average chin looks like its gone.

He is 35 and not lived the life. I've been saying for a while now he is past it and its evident but I think its a lot worse than I thought plus he is further declining real quickly.

I don't think his ring IQ is fantastic or his defence sure it was a lot better when he was more mobile back in the day & fought against extremely basic, limited opposition but even then his size was a huge factor rather than him being anything special defensively. If his ring I.Q was fantastic he wouldn't be struggling consistently with bad opposition and would make the correct adjustments. He wouldn't be spending so long against the ropes being wailed on or getting trapped in the corner. The only adjustment he has ever really made is being more aggressive/desperate even then against Ngannou that is the first time I've ever questioned his heart. Where was the urgency? I've never seen him look like that and I am rather embarrassed to say as a boxing fan he looked like he was scared and feeling sorry for himself for most part. Maybe you disagree but that didn't look like no fighting man or Gypsy King to me, it looked like a guy and I did have him winning don't get me wrong but he looked to me like a defeated fighter. Like someone whose heart just was no longer in it.

[Stuntman Mike]

or be ready to, even then Zhangs like 40.

Are they good? No but right place, right time I'm afraid.

Fury is shot to bits, Wilder is like 40 and no doubt also shot after those beatings but he won't fight anyone at all so who knows - terribly limited puncher to begin with.
Usyk probably has 2-3 fights left max and is aging rapidly.

I think AJ has been written off and *might* actually be able to come again.

The HW division is even worse than even I anticipated and I'm always moaning how much it sucks.

To be perfectly honest its not just the HW divisions either the whole sports in the mud.
In the social media era where men are soft, no great trainers anymore. Nobody has that hunger they're too pampered. We love to sit and think we're bigger and better and have all these advances but really you just have a load of guys who train more like a crossfitter than actual boxers. The only actual advances in boxing is the drugs they consume.

It's far more complex than simple triangle theory's


I think hrgovic gets beat by fury and usyk

I think zhang stops fury

I think usyk beats zhang

And I think fury beats usyk


The only thing that isn't certain is who's the best ,styles make fights and right now there's no clear cut dominant top heavy it's as simple as that

[Toffee]

Joshua... he's coming up 35 and mentally done.

Joyce who is nearly 40.

Canelo was a kid and now he's coming up 34.

Crawford Is top dog now, in a few years he will be approaching 40 and finished.

Your point is fine, but why inflate the ages?

Joshua turned 34 two weeks ago. Say he's 34.
Joyce turned 38 about a month ago. Say he's 38.
Canelo was 33 three months ago. Say he's 33
Crawford is a month over 36.

Everyone gets older. Their age now is what's important now.

[deathofaclown]

Your point is fine, but why inflate the ages?

Joshua turned 34 two weeks ago. Say he's 34.
Joyce turned 38 about a month ago. Say he's 38.
Canelo was 33 three months ago. Say he's 33
Crawford is a month over 36.

Everyone gets older. Their age now is what's important now.

How is that inflated? Is AJ not coming up 35 his next birthday and probably not far off 35 by his next real significant fight or probably over 35 by the time he gets a title shot? The context of the conversation was how the fighters will be relevant as the new era comes in. Well AJ WILL be 35+ by the time he gets a title shot to be relevant as a serious operator again as the current era fades out

Joyce is a hell of a lot closer to 40 than 30. In the grand scheme of things he's nearly 40 and would be pretty much 40 if he was ever to work his way in to any title contention.

i said IN A FEW YEARS Crawford will be looking at 40 years old, he's an ageing fighter and time goes fast. I.e he's the wrong side of 35. Same as Canelo in a couple of fights time will end up approaching 35. It's not about inflating ages. I'm making a point that boxing eras come and go pretty quickly. I was saying it didn't seem long ago that Canelo was a young kid coming through and now he isn't far off his mid 30s.


you're being pedantic about specifics and not taking into account the context of the topic. I thought you were brighter than that actually.

Now I'm sure you understand the point in context of the topic...

[Toffee]

How is that inflated? Is AJ not coming up 35 his next birthday and probably not far off 35 by his next real significant fight or probably over 35 by the time he gets a title shot? The context of the conversation was how the fighters will be relevant as the new era comes in. Well AJ WILL be 35+ by the time he gets a title shot to be relevant as a serious operator again as the current era fades out

Joyce is a hell of a lot closer to 40 than 30. In the grand scheme of things he's nearly 40 and would be pretty much 40 if he was ever to work his way in to any title contention.

i said IN A FEW YEARS Crawford will be looking at 40 years old, he's an ageing fighter and time goes fast. I.e he's the wrong side of 35. Same as Canelo in a couple of fights time will end up approaching 35. It's not about inflating ages. I'm making a point that boxing eras come and go pretty quickly. I was saying it didn't seem long ago that Canelo was a young kid coming through and now he isn't far off his mid 30s.


you're being pedantic about specifics and not taking into account the context of the topic. I thought you were brighter than that actually.

Now I'm sure you understand the point in context of the topic...

I absolutely understand the point.

I just don't buy into the inflating of ages. It's become a real issue on this site.

AJ is 34 - that's not a big deal in heavyweight terms (especially for a boxer/puncher).

[JakeTheBoxer]

It's far more complex than simple triangle theory's


I think hrgovic gets beat by fury and usyk

I think zhang stops fury

I think usyk beats zhang

And I think fury beats usyk


The only thing that isn't certain is who's the best ,styles make fights and right now there's no clear cut dominant top heavy it's as simple as that

You could be right. Styles make fights.

I think so:

Hrgovic loses to Usyk and Fury

Zhang stops Fury

Zhang loses to Usyk

Usyk beats Fury

Parker beats Usyk in a close fight

[HeadShots]

if Zhang clips Fury, it's over. His shots are the heaviest. also from southpaw angle.

[JakeTheBoxer]

if Zhang clips Fury, it's over. His shots are the heaviest. also from southpaw angle.

Zhang stops Fury, no doubt. Fury team knows this.

Bakole also stops Fury. That is why is Bakole Fury`s sparing partner. To make sure he never gets a shot.