If "quitting" is OK, then why do we value guys like Gatti, Frazier, Corrales....??

[Eric Holder]

I would not be so hard on Ortiz if he had tried THROUGH round 6. Or gone into round 7. Or took the mandatory 8 count and came back at Maidana and went down again.

But dude folded like like a cheap rental chair as soon as the heat got turned up.

I think he should've fought on too, especially since he was able to drop Marcos and it was a close fight. But I'm not going to knock him for it only he knows how much punishment he can take, he's still young and has a chance at redeeming himself.

but I won't lie I was very suprised

[QUISQUEYA]

diffrent fighter bro... you can't broadbrush all fighters into the same catoagory! It makes no sense!

Yeah there is a brutal side to boxing and yeah we like to see it from time to time BUT it's not just a tough man sport, there is skill involved and cunning, styles. It if didn't involve that i wouldn't watch it. Any one can fight and poorley i might add, but it takes a skilled intelligent fighter to do it well... ATG where this not just face mashers! it's the HOW they one that got them there some with brute force some with skill and cunning, not becasue they all stood in front of each other and swing for the hills.

Nobody knows that better than me. Joel Casamayor and Floyd Mayweather are among my favourite fighters. Floyd likes to NOT get hit. Pernell Whitaker is my all-time favourite.

But Victor Ortiz has embraced the "Vicious" persona. Wears Mexican colors. Markets himself as a tough kid who overcame a hard-luck background.

Those things are not free. That persona that Ortiz and HBO collaborated in selling?...it comes with a price.

[TredKiller]

I see not quitting as bonus points, in other words someone who does decide to stop fighting in a match will not be villified by me.

People are too freaking ******. If someone runs into a burning building to save an old lady people would give him props for it, you wouldn't look at someone with scorn for not going in the building.

green k for one of the best posts ive read in a while.

[TheModernRacist]

I get your point. But just because we praise those fighters that do that, doesn't mean we have to condemn the fighters that don't.

Ehh.....how you say.....

You talk out of *******, no?

One minute you say praise men who do, then you say not condemn those that don't.

Ehhh....how you say.....

You are what we Jihadists like to call, "**** for brains", no?

And please, my friend.......

Cover up that woman in your avatar. Allah does not approve of such behavior and it is an affront to my religion, no?

[QUISQUEYA]

diffrent fighter bro... you can't broadbrush all fighters into the same catoagory! It makes no sense!

.

I hate you for that avy. Damn.

[QUISQUEYA]

Ehh.....how you say.....

You talk out of *******, no?

One minute you say praise men who do, then you say not condemn those that don't.

Ehhh....how you say.....

You are what we Jihadists like to call, "**** for brains", no?

And please, my friend.......

Cover up that woman in your avatar. Allah does not approve of such behavior and it is an affront to my religion, no?

Jack? Is that you?

[savorduhflavor]

Nobody knows that better than me. Joel Casamayor and Floyd Mayweather are among my favourite fighters. Floyd likes to NOT get hit. Pernell Whitaker is my all-time favourite.

But Victor Ortiz has embraced the "Vicious" persona. Wears Mexican colors. Markets himself as a tough kid who overcame a hard-luck background.

Those things are not free. That persona that Ortiz and HBO collaborated in selling?...it comes with a price.

But you see I'm not so sure if that's how HE likes to market himself or if that's how GBP likes to market him.

It was the same thing with Cotto. People made him out to be this indestructible machine so when he quit people said the same ****....but Cotto never said that **** himself, it's just the media and the promotional company using that persona, not the fighters themselves.

[VoodooChild]

For a basketball center, being tall is good. Therefore, being short is not a good characteristic for a basketball center.

For a beauty pageant, it is good to be slim. Therefore, it is not good to be a fat contestant in a beauty pageant.

For a boxer, pushing yourself beyond normal pain theshold is a valued trait. Therefore, refusing to push yourself beyond normal pain threshhold is bad.

* streamlined even more than your usual syllogism.

Those are not syllogisms or logically sound, can you use standard format with 2 propositions (major and minor) and a conclusion please.

[rob6465]

In one breath, you can't laud guys like Frazier, Gatti, Corrales, etc for being tremendous warriors with great heart. And in the next breath, you say it's OK for Ortiz to "stop fighting to protect himself and his career".

Either "guts and glory" is a great thing... or it's not.

If we elevate the guys who "gut it out" in tough fights, then it makes perfect sense to vilify the guys who quit when the going gets tough.



"I'm too young to get beat up like this"

It's not okay and Ortiz will have to live with that if he decides to retire or continue. We applaud those fighters for not quitting, but we should also give ortiz a chance to correct what he did last night. It feels like some fans want to bury ortiz and not allow him to come back. Only Ortiz will know if he has it INSIDE to correct what happened last night. Let's wait and see....yes?

[MACAQUEINBLACK]

I posit this: How does Ortiz know how far he can go when he has never pushed himself? Keep in mind: he quit at his FIRST brutal moment in the ring.

Maidana had been down several times. Doesn't Ortiz think that he was hurting too?

Did you see Casamayor-Katsidis?

I saw it, man.



Just to take myself to task on something in my last post - I don't believe Paul has any 'quit' in him, whether it's the 1st, 6th or 12th round. It's actually one of the reasons why he's about my favorite active fighter, so I understand what you're saying.

But Ortiz isn't Malignaggi and I'm not going to **** on him for it. If he decides he wasn't cut out to take headshots in the course of making a living, I guess we won't be seeing him again, kid can get out and best of luck with whatever he does outside boxing. If he fights on, we may see him dig deeper in future. As it stands he's a question mark. We'll get answers in due course. Let's give him another chance.