what is better dominating one division or winning belts in many??

[Jim Jeffries]

Soooo, now you are telling me that the #3 ranked MW is a more challenging fight than the LHW champion?

Sorry, 9 out of ten times, that is NOT the case.

So what belts did Tarver have that made him the LHW champ exactly? IBO?

And please don't say Ring.

[TheGreatA]

People shouldn't forget that in Hagler and Monzon's time it was quite a bit harder to go up a weight division to get a belt as for Monzon he would've had to get past the LHW champion Bob Foster and for Hagler he would've had to get past the unified WBC, WBA & IBF champion Michael Spinks, two fighters who were great themselves.

[Boofdatruth]

Beat a couple of what guys?

Monzon's victory over two-time middleweight champion Rodrigo Valdez (actually his pair of victories over Valdez) is just as impressive to me as Hopkins' lone victory over Tarver.

Monzon actually fought and beat most of those guys twice.

Many thoughtMonzon got over in the second fight when he beat valdez.

[mcentepede]

Monzon # 3 all-time Middle-weight on my list. Behind Robinson and closely behind Hagler. Hagler was powerful(never been dropped cleanly) and durable. His abilty to switch it up was under-rated. Monzon beat on his wife alot to keep in shape, and was always prepared to goto war, but I think Hagler edges him on account, Monzon's 15 victims seemed not as strong as Hagler's 12. Hagler fought all tough guys...Duran, Hearns, Leonard, Mugabi, Hamsho, Antofermo, and even his mandatories were capable fighters (Sibson, Obelmegias, Griffith gave Monzon troubles both times...1 fight I had Griff winning. Ditto for Valdez (his bro died before 1 of their fights) and Briscoe gave Monzon his tuffest fights according to Monzon himself.

[warp1432]

So what belts did Tarver have that made him the LHW champ exactly? IBO?

And please don't say Ring.

Why? Because he didn't pay 3% of his purse to them?


Anyway about this subject, I think people get a lot more critized when they fight at one division for a long period of time. When they do that they are accused of dominating a weak division.

If Carlos Monzon and Marvin Hagler were judged by today's standards Monzon wouldn't get any credit for beating Napoles. He'd be a blown up welterweight.

Marvin Hagler's you could say were past their prime and his wins were blown up. You could say Mugabi was overrated.

Of course none of this is true, but in one division you can be subjected to a lot more critizism. Also when you dominate a division, new contenders don't really have time to establish themselves or afterwards at that weight too.

[Boofdatruth]

Old Gringo is absolutely correct. The question here is vague, perfect example is 3 division champ Jeff Fenech. Who moved up like Pac-Man did in same divisions mind you. Never did manage to unify anything...all alfabet belts. He will say he had nobody great around...whatever. If you're division is stacked with great fighters or great fighters invade your division to challenge you, then it's o.k. (Monzon, Hagler, Pryor) Notice how Mayweather hasn't really beaten a legit welter-weight except Baldomir and Judah (wasn't he jr. welter?). We already established that Hoya fight was trash incarnate. Hagler could have moved up, but he had great fighters in and around his division at the time. Any there was no Super-middle-weight back then, and light Heavy was the worse division at the time. At least Calzage unified his crappy division to get most/all belts. He gets props for that. Mayweather is a big disappointment for me. With all his skills, he should at least pretend he wants to fight everybody.

Floyd didn't beat a legit welter in YOUR eyes. You see, Baldomir was the unified WW champ, so it is cotto who never beat a legit welter. Now unless you count quintana as a legit welter, is quintana a legit welter now? Where did cotto get his title shot from? Where did the title come from? Floyd beat baldy, so he did what he had to do. Sanctioning bodies stripped baldy for not paying sanctioning fees, so when you say floyd has never fought a legit welter, cotto has never fought for a legit title.

[Jim Jeffries]

Why? Because he didn't pay 3% of his purse to them?

Because a belt invented by a ****zine to make money that doesn't require any defenses and can be held indefinitely by a person choosing not to fight, doesn't hold a lot of weight in my book.

[Boofdatruth]

Monzon # 3 all-time Middle-weight on my list. Behind Robinson and closely behind Hagler. Hagler was powerful(never been dropped cleanly) and durable. His abilty to switch it up was under-rated. Monzon beat on his wife alot to keep in shape, and was always prepared to goto war, but I think Hagler edges him on account, Monzon's 15 victims seemed not as strong as Hagler's 12. Hagler fought all tough guys...Duran, Hearns, Leonard, Mugabi, Hamsho, Antofermo, and even his mandatories were capable fighters (Sibson, Obelmegias, Griffith gave Monzon troubles both times...1 fight I had Griff winning. Ditto for Valdez (his bro died before 1 of their fights) and Briscoe gave Monzon his tuffest fights according to Monzon himself.

Griffith never came close to beating monzon. Monzon did beat on his wife which probably did keep him in shape. He even killed her, and was stil loved by his fans still. Comical

[mcentepede]

Agreed there. But the question was never answered by you. Cotto moves up from jr. welter anyhoo. He's fighting Margarito, taking risks, fought Mosley, Zab, Quintana...damn he's fought more quality guys than Mayweather has the past 5 years...damn. Don't forget the question. Mayweather is not really DOMINATING the division, he beat Baldy yes...Because Baldy beat up on Zab (who let's face it, is a disappointment) who needed two fights to beat Spinks Jinkx Corey, who got past Mayorga, who beat Vernon, who beat up Shane twice. Mayweather should have fought Shane to redeem himself.

[warp1432]

Because a belt invented by a ****zine to make money that doesn't require any defenses and can be held indefinitely by a person choosing not to fight, doesn't hold a lot of weight in my book.

To make money? Even if the ring did make that belt (which they didn't because it had been around since the 1900s) to make their ****zine more popular, it still wouldn't bring in the kind of purse percentage that the WBC would get for allowing them to fight under their prestigse belt.

Granted that with all the absurd mandatories and all the other bull**** such as charging Pavlik 25,000 dollars to fight against Taylor the second time even though his belt wasn't on the line makes the ring a lot better.

You actually have to lose the belt in the ring. Not be unjustly stripped of it. And Tarver chose the right to fight and be called champion.