Who's Number 1: "Greatest Upsets"

[number6]

Many of the fights on the list were big title fights,with champs fighting contenders with good records.Although every fight listed was an upset if were talking greatest upsets of all time
i dont see how Sugar Ray Leonard and Holyfeild could make the top 20 as they were great fighters at the time.
I would tend to go with journey men beating world class opposition.
Im not sure about being the greatest of all time or even close but 2 that come to mind were.
Ross Puritty's tko win over Wladimir Klitsckho.
Jesse Ferguson's points win over Ray Mercer.

[La_Vibora]

Many of the fights on the list were big title fights,with champs fighting contenders with good records.Although every fight listed was an upset if were talking greatest upsets of all time
i dont see how Sugar Ray Leonard and Holyfeild could make the top 20 as they were great fighters at the time.
I would tend to go with journey men beating world class opposition.
Im not sure about being the greatest of all time or even close but 2 that come to mind were.
Ross Puritty's tko win over Wladimir Klitsckho.
Jesse Ferguson's points win over Ray Mercer.

Well Evander was considered over the hill at that time, had been hospitalized, and was beaten by Michael Moorer. In fact, he was said to have recieved mail from his fans begging him not to take the Tyson fight because they feared for his life. So at that point, Evander was considered to no longer be a great fighter. As for Sugar Ray, he was a welterweight, who had been retired for three years, and then jumped up to take on one of the toughest men in the sport at middleweight that had been king at that weight class. I mean that is like if after the Trinidad fight, that DLH had retired, then came back years later to fight Bernard Hopkins at middleweight after he just dismantled Felix
Trinidad. He would have been a HUGE underdog too.

Anyways, butterly1964, I think it was a very well put together list, I would have shifted some lower, and placed some higher, like I think Tyson-Douglas is without a doubt the greatest upset of all time imo, I mean Douglas was a 42-1 underdog, there is no bigger underdog than that. However, good job there, it was certainly great to read it. Thanks for sharing.

[Yogi]

Good effort, Butterfly.

[butterfly1964]

Well Evander was considered over the hill at that time, had been hospitalized, and was beaten by Michael Moorer. In fact, he was said to have recieved mail from his fans begging him not to take the Tyson fight because they feared for his life. So at that point, Evander was considered to no longer be a great fighter. As for Sugar Ray, he was a welterweight, who had been retired for three years, and then jumped up to take on one of the toughest men in the sport at middleweight that had been king at that weight class. I mean that is like if after the Trinidad fight, that DLH had retired, then came back years later to fight Bernard Hopkins at middleweight after he just dismantled Felix
Trinidad. He would have been a HUGE underdog too.

Anyways, butterly1964, I think it was a very well put together list, I would have shifted some lower, and placed some higher, like I think Tyson-Douglas is without a doubt the greatest upset of all time imo, I mean Douglas was a 42-1 underdog, there is no bigger underdog than that. However, good job there, it was certainly great to read it. Thanks for sharing.

Let me say something about those odds. Nobody knows who made the bet or where it was placed or how many people bet on Tyson-Douglass, so for all we know those numbers could have been made up. The same thing goes for Louis-Schmeling. 10-1 for louis-schmeling seems kind of short considering what many people thought of louis and schmeling at the time. Those odds could have been made up. And even if it wasn't, then the obvious reason for it was that many people betted on schmeling not because they thought he would win, but because they wanted him to win, simply because louis was black and this was 1936, so racism was at it's peak at that time. I'm pretty sure that Louis-schmeling, like tyson-douglass, and also like liston-clay was a situation where nobody was picking schmeling, douglass or clay to make it out of one round. This also might explain something about the liston-clay odds, 7-1. Clay was a likable figure in boxing with a squeaky-clean image, while liston was a thug and a mug and was a bad role model to represent boxing, so the reason why the odds may have been only 7-1 was because people wanted clay to win, but deep in their haert, they thought he really had no chance. So to reiterate what I said in the beginning of the paragraph, the betting odds mean nothing in order to determine what was a greater upset.

IMO tyson-douglass doesn't make #1 because we have already by that time seen "tyson's" in the past(foreman, liston, frazier, baer), so this was not something new. However, Louis was something new at that time, no one had ever seen anything like him, so the possibility of him being beaten was next to nothing. Also Liston makes the top of my list because Liston was more intimidating than tyson or louis was, since he had a long rap sheet, and ties to the mob, where he had been a hitman, and tyson was just a kid from the streets like everyone else, and louis didn't really work on the intimidation facter too much.

[leff]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to butterfly1964 again.

[butterfly1964]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to butterfly1964 again.

I appreciate it that you thought about it though.

[Kid Achilles]

What did his reputation and mob ties have to do with how good of a fighter he actually was when he fought Ali?

Liston was old, worn, and not even half the fighter he once was on that night in 1964. I do consider it one of the ten most famous upsets in boxing history, but I disagree with it's ranking as number 1. Braddock beating Baer and Douglas beating Tyson were both bigger upsets IMO. By "bigger" upset, I mean the statistic improbability of the result of the fight.

The Ali-Liston fight was seen as a big upset because no one realized how far Liston's quickness had deteriorated and just how good and durable and capable of imposing his will on a stronger man the young Clay was. In hindsight, it isn't a big upset at all. They could fight ten times and I'd pick a young Ali over an old Liston on each occassion. Baer-Braddock and Douglas-Tyson on the other hand were such stunning upsets that in a rematch I would not favor either victor. Even in hindsight (okay, maybe in Tyson's case you could say he had lost focus on training and his skills suffered somewhat) Tyson should have still beaten Douglas and Baer should have creamed Braddock.

Now those are serious upsets: dominating champions in their prime losing to underdogs who, even in retrospect, should not have had a chance.

[paul750]

I think a couple of British guys always deserve a mention in this debate, Lloyd Honeyghan vs Donald Durry, and Kirkland Laing vs Roberto Duran. Tyson vs Douglas is always the first one that springs to mind when thinking about an upset.

[butterfly1964]

What did his reputation and mob ties have to do with how good of a fighter he actually was when he fought Ali?

Liston was old, worn, and not even half the fighter he once was on that night in 1964. I do consider it one of the ten most famous upsets in boxing history, but I disagree with it's ranking as number 1. Braddock beating Baer and Douglas beating Tyson were both bigger upsets IMO. By "bigger" upset, I mean the statistic improbability of the result of the fight.

The Ali-Liston fight was seen as a big upset because no one realized how far Liston's quickness had deteriorated and just how good and durable and capable of imposing his will on a stronger man the young Clay was. In hindsight, it isn't a big upset at all. They could fight ten times and I'd pick a young Ali over an old Liston on each occassion. Baer-Braddock and Douglas-Tyson on the other hand were such stunning upsets that in a rematch I would not favor either victor. Even in hindsight (okay, maybe in Tyson's case you could say he had lost focus on training and his skills suffered somewhat) Tyson should have still beaten Douglas and Baer should have creamed Braddock.

Now those are serious upsets: dominating champions in their prime losing to underdogs who, even in retrospect, should not have had a chance.

But "hindsight" is not what counts, it's what was thought at the time, so in that cse clay-liston beats all.

[Verstyle]

cant believe u only got tyson-douglas at 3