A debate on Lennox Lewis’s place amongst the titans of heavyweight history.

[The plunger man]

I do think this man belong amongst the very best in heavyweight history.
His record speaks for itself

[Rusty Tromboni]

First no one ever said he wasn't a great Heavyweight. That would be as idiotic as calling him Top 5.


The first issue that needs to be addressed is that fact that Heavyweight Rankings are effectively a P4P List. In the same way that P4P Lists tend to favor/focus upon those fighters who did not compete in the most celebrated division, Heavyweight lists are a P4P Ranking for that division.

I get it, what applies to Heavyweight applies to every division:
- We have had Super Middleweights entering the ring heavier than a prime John L Sullivan ever did, when divisions didn't really exist.

- Shane Mosely the Lightweight entered the ring the same size Sam Langford did when he made his Heavyweight debut. While Packey McFarland was locked out of fighting for the Lightweight strap because he could not make 133 lbs. Ringside.

But the facts are obvious we inherently equivocate when discussing Heavyweights. Bob Fitzsimmons won the Middleweight Championship (147 lb. Weight limit!) only a few years before becoming Hw champion. He's too small for Beterbiev, let alone Fury.

So yes, in the H2H context Lewis does incredibly well. It's ****** to pretend he doesn't, but it's also ****** to pretend that means something: while Fitzsimmons is never a feature of Heavyweight rankings Marciano is, and the Marciano who beat Walcott was more than 70 pounds lighter than the Lewis who TKOd Wlad. SEVENTY TWO pounds! That's the same disparity between Marciano and your favorite Flyweight Champion!

Clearly different criteria matter to different people. So if H2H matchups are your chief or only criterion, then say it. But accepting other criteria, like quality of opposition or consistency, will hurt Lewis' standing with any subjective fan.

[The plunger man]

First no one ever said he wasn't a great Heavyweight. That would be as idiotic as calling him Top 5.


The first issue that needs to be addressed is that fact that Heavyweight Rankings are effectively a P4P List. In the same way that P4P Lists tend to favor/focus upon those fighters who did not compete in the most celebrated division, Heavyweight lists are a P4P Ranking for that division.

I get it, what applies to Heavyweight applies to every division:
- We have had Super Middleweights entering the ring heavier than a prime John L Sullivan ever did, when divisions didn't really exist.

- Shane Mosely the Lightweight entered the ring the same size Sam Langford did when he made his Heavyweight debut. While Packey McFarland was locked out of fighting for the Lightweight strap because he could not make 133 lbs. Ringside.

But the facts are obvious we inherently equivocate when discussing Heavyweights. Bob Fitzsimmons won the Middleweight Championship (147 lb. Weight limit!) only a few years before becoming Hw champion. He's too small for Beterbiev, let alone Fury.

So yes, in the H2H context Lewis does incredibly well. It's ****** to pretend he doesn't, but it's also ****** to pretend that means something: while Fitzsimmons is never a feature of Heavyweight rankings Marciano is, and the Marciano who beat Walcott was more than 70 pounds lighter than the Lewis who TKOd Wlad. SEVENTY TWO pounds! That's the same disparity between Marciano and your favorite Flyweight Champion!

Clearly different criteria matter to different people. So if H2H matchups are your chief or only criterion, then say it. But accepting other criteria, like quality of opposition or consistency, will hurt Lewis' standing with any subjective fan.

you’ve lost all credibility and you need to study up

[HOUDINI563]

Rusty is as far out in left field as anyone can get. Typical.

[Rusty Tromboni]

you’ve lost all credibility and you need to study up

Nice White Flag.

You're boo got ****d by journeymen.

Rusty is as far out in left field as anyone can get. Typical.

Reading your insane posts and aversion to logic, I can absolutely understand you saying that.

And hey my compliments for making a post without drooling over Marciano.

[HOUDINI563]

Not a huge Marciano fan. Just a boxing expert.

[billeau2]

Lewis will be remembered very well historically. He fought good to great competition, was dominant, and had many attributes.

[HOUDINI563]

Lewis was an ATG heavyweight champion. He checks all the boxes.