Henry armstrong couldn't beat willie pep

[QueensburyRules]

I'd rank he and Ross pretty much side by side in an all time ranking sense. There's no question Ross beat the greater quality of opposition, although you could argue Pep looks better on film.

You didn't address any of the points I made in my first paragraph, either. Why could he not handle a bigger, stronger ruffian like Angott? People will excuse the Saddler losses due to being "past prime", but he fought Angott at his very best. Two fighters with rough, unorthodox styles (although Angott was more versatile) that Pep couldn't hack it against. Neither were as good as Armstrong in that regard.

I feel like you're dismissing the fact that Armstrong was just as unique as Pep in a different way.

- -I'm not so wishywashy with feelings as U.

Pep one of the most prolific fighters in history 62-0 when he fought Sammy.

The cards were close in a 10 rd bout. Pep went on another long win streak including a fatality tragic plane crash where he was told he would never walk again.



He avenged his first loss to Sadler who was more dangerous, stronger, and more powerful than Sammy and then rather ******ly engaged him twice more in a pair of some of the worst fights of that era.

More losses follow as is typical of fighters carrying on past prime.

I see no stylistic genius in Hanks plodding, face first style. He won via conditioning, will, relentless pressure with excellent ko power. He got beat plenty at feather and did his best work at welter, enough to be on p4p lists with Pep, but he'd never be there if he hadn't moved up.

[Happy Lora]

Hank was a late bloomer due to his circumstances in life. Not too dissimilar from a lot of fighters them. Nothing to do with the weight he fought at. Hell, he started his career something like 1-3 or 1-4 when he was fighting solely to eat that night. He went from blending in on the Mexican Featherweight scene to smoking all of those same fighters he went tit for tat with when he really found his stride.

If anything, the fact that he decided to butter his bread at Welterweight instead of Feather or Light is what caused him to burn out.

I think (I guess I'll have to refrain from saying "I feel") you underrate his technique. He employed a lot of the same tactics inside as Duran, particularly in terms of head placement and gaining superior positioning in close. Just without the grappling.

Here's a solid breakdown if you care to watch.

[Rusty Tromboni]

I find Saddler a lot less impressive than Armstrong on film.

what footage do you have the guy that lost to Arizmendi, dodged miller, and fumbled through an old fat Wolgast?

[Rusty Tromboni]

If an old anf fat Wolgast could trouble Hank while only fighting in spurts, imagine what a prime Pep does.

Does anyone here think that Freddie Miller was better than Pep? If not, how do you even get Hank into the ring against Pep, if he avoided Miller like the plague?

[Happy Lora]

By the time Armstrong became champion, Miller was well past his prime. Not to mention Armstrong moved up to capture the Welter and then Lightweight titles not long after winning the Feather title. He didn't stick around at the weight. He went for the bigger fish. What are you suggesting? That he ducked Miller in lieu of fighting Barney Ross two full weight classes higher? And then ducked him again to win the Lightweight title from Lou Ambers?

The other fights you're talking about against Wolgast and Arizmendi took place early in Hank's career, before he'd really even found his stride as a fighter. He was very much a late bloomer. One of the most extreme examples, as a matter of fact. Hell, he lost 4 of his first 5 career bouts. He was losing to fighters like Ritchie Fontaine and Davey Abad while hardly distinguishing himself from the other guys in the California Mexican Featherweight scene like Arizmendi, Casanova, Conde, etc.

He didn't hit his prime until 1937, and it was probably the fiercest prime a fighter has ever had. He fought several of those guys again down the line and none of them fared nearly as well.

[QueensburyRules]

- -Ya gotta understand, even with 200+ bouts, on boxing history Forums, it follows that he ducked a thousand or more fighters in his career.

Elementary Watson!

[Rusty Tromboni]

By the time Armstrong became champion, Miller was well past his prime. Not to mention Armstrong moved up to capture the Welter and then Lightweight titles not long after winning the Feather title. He didn't stick around at the weight. He went for the bigger fish. What are you suggesting? That he ducked Miller in lieu of fighting Barney Ross two full weight classes higher? And then ducked him again to win the Lightweight title from Lou Ambers?

The other fights you're talking about against Wolgast and Arizmendi took place early in Hank's career, before he'd really even found his stride as a fighter. He was very much a late bloomer. One of the most extreme examples, as a matter of fact. Hell, he lost 4 of his first 5 career bouts. He was losing to fighters like Ritchie Fontaine and Davey Abad while hardly distinguishing himself from the other guys in the California Mexican Featherweight scene like Arizmendi, Casanova, Conde, etc.

He didn't hit his prime until 1937, and it was probably the fiercest prime a fighter has ever had. He fought several of those guys again down the line and none of them fared nearly as well.

I love when people try to save face by citing history. But get it wrong.

[Happy Lora]

I love when people try to save face by citing history. But get it wrong.

You’re the one who owes an explanation for this post.

[Rusty Tromboni]

You’re the one who owes an explanation for this post.

Refer to BoxRec.

[ron davis]

Boxing records are ( smoke and mirrors) deceiving to build up a reputation. Armstrong fought ten or more (haven't checked in awhile) bums, two to four times to build up his dubious record. There is one fighter he beat (via tko 2:49 of the 12th round) who gave him his worse beating ever, and was carried out of the ring still wearing his crown. He turned down $35,000 for a rematch. Also, he pummeled Lou Ambers and was robbed 1937 none title. Lou was offered $35,000 turned it down. The N.B.A. on March 23rd 1940 stripped Ambers of his title for not Fighting Mr. Day as scheduled. Google, Davey Day nailing Lou Ambers. Have a good day all.