What IF...

[oldgringo]

i like the way you think, kid. really i do, but i have a sneaking su****ion you weren't around at the time this fight was mentioned. in order to fully understand what happened, you had to of been there at the time when people wanted pryor - leonard.

what i am talking about is the window of opportunity at 140-147. let's face it, leonard was where the money was and he was the one calling the shots. don't get me wrong, i am a great fan of leonard, however, one of the most manipulative fighters ever to have donned some gloves. in my collection i have loads of interviews as well as 2000+ bouts, one of these interviews is with leonard only a couple of years ago, he was being very candid about his whole career. no topic was out of bounds.

leonard goes on to say that for the montreal olympics, 'i moved out of pryor's weight catagory, to avoid him, the man was too dangerous.' he went on to add 'after i captured the welterweight title, pryor asked me out but i felt he was too dangerous an opponent at that stage of my career.' the interviewer states he feels a lot of people listening might find that surprising, leonard states, i don't think many realise how good aaron was, he was lethal. don't get me wrong, i would have fought him, but at that stage i wasn't ready. ask Tommy, I think he would agree with me.' leonard starts laughing...

for these reasons and these reasons alone i feel you are not giving pryor enough credit.

i wasn't in the midst of leonard/pryor discussions at all. i have read a fair deal about this "never-was" fight and my understanding is that it was a fight that true boxing fans wanted and never received. ray knew pryor was dangerous, but he wasn't a big draw and yielded small rewards. i hate ray leonard with a passion, but i respect his skills. this was supposed to happen before ray retired for the second time correct?

that being said i just cannot see how ray leonard, after beating the most lethal man in the sport at the time (hearns), duran and benitez would lose to pryor. just can't see it.

[THE REAL NINJA]

i wasn't in the midst of leonard/pryor discussions at all. i have read a fair deal about this "never-was" fight and my understanding is that it was a fight that true boxing fans wanted and never received. ray knew pryor was dangerous, but he wasn't a big draw and yielded small rewards. i hate ray leonard with a passion, but i respect his skills. this was supposed to happen before ray retired for the second time correct?

that being said i just cannot see how ray leonard, after beating the most lethal man in the sport at the time (hearns), duran and benitez would lose to pryor. just can't see it.

i could be wrong but i think they were sparring partners at some point and Pryor got the better of Ray to the point that he never wanted to fight him...but you never know what would happen in a real fight the same was said before terry norris Vs paul vaden and that was a one sided bore fest

[Dynamite76]

1)What if Gerry Cooney won the WBA heavyweight title?
2)What if James "Quick" Tillis beat Mike Weaver for the WBA heavyweight title?
3)What if Howard Davis Jr fought Gene Hatcher and/or Billy Costello for the jr welterweight belts?
4)What if Harry Wills fought Jack Dempsey?
5)What if Ray Robinson fought Charley Burley?
6)What if Roberto Duran fought Antonio Cervantes?
7)What if Jimmy Bivins fought Joey Maxim for the light heavyweight belt?
8)What if John L Sullivan got cajones and fought Peter Jackson?

[SABBATH]

i could be wrong but i think they were sparring partners at some point and Pryor got the better of Ray to the point that he never wanted to fight him...but you never know what would happen in a real fight the same was said before terry norris Vs paul vaden and that was a one sided bore fest

The two never came close to fighting.

When Leonard won the welterweight title from Benitez in 1979 Pryor was a still just a rising lightweight contender.

In 1980 Leonard was preoccupied with the 2 Duran fights when Pryor moved up in weight and won the junior-welterweight title. When Pryor defended against Gaetan Hart days before Leonard-Duran II, he challenged both fighters in his post fight interview. That was the earliest time I can recall a Leonard-Pryor match being even thought of.

In 1981 Leonard-Hearns was THE fight everyone wanted to see and Pryor did not fit into the scheme.

In 1982 it was assumed Leonard would be targeting a Marvin Hagler fight. Leonard had one fight against Bruce Finch in early 1982 before detaching his retina in the spring and retiring. At this time Pryor was focused on fighting Arguello which had been set for November that year.

With Leonard already retired Pryor also anounced his retirement following Arguello II in 1983.

When Leonard came out of retirement in 1984 and fought Kevin Howard, it was supposed to be the first step towards a Hagler fight who was at ringside watching that night. Pryor ended his short retirement also with hopes of fighting Ray Mancini or Leonard. Pryor had already been stripped of his WBA belt but the IBF still recognized him as chamnpion.

Pryor was in Oakville Ontario training for Nicky Furlano when he went to Buffalo New York to see Mancini lose his title to Livingstone Bramble. I was around Pryor's training camp at the time and was told by his trainers that Pryor was openly crying when Mancini lost.

After Leonard retiring again after Howard, and Mancini losing his title, Hector Camacho the new junior-lightweight champion began being mentioned as a potential Pryor opponent in August 1984. The two fighters were interviewed together on CBS about it. Pryor was already a drug user at this time, and defended once more against Gary Hinton in 1985 before slipping off the rails into full-blown drug addiction.

As you can see the timeline never had an availabilty for a Leonard-Pryor fight. Leonard always sought the next challenge in increments. Benitez-Duran-Hearns-Hagler. Pryor would have been a good money fight, but it was a step back and not a match that public wanted more than Duran, Hearns or Hagler which were massive at the time.

I speak with Pryor now and again and he told me he was at most a natural lightweight and would only have gone as high as welterweight to fight Leonard. Pryor had no interest in the fighting the next wave of welters such as Donald Curry or Milton Mcrrory.

As for Leonard and Pryor sparring, it reputedly happened in the amateurs and I heard Leonard got the better of Pryor. If you guys want, I'll ask Aaron for for his version of events and post it but I can already predict what he'll probably say.

[Azteca]

re sabbath:
my above post refers to an interview where leonard goes over his career. leonard says these exact words: 'i moved out of pryor's weight catagory, to avoid him, the man was too dangerous.' leonard was one of the smartest fighters ever from a business sense. he was always able to manipulate his way around certain deals because he was the media darling.

again, leonard released pryor from training, FACT, not the other way around. to state pryor was battered in sparring is bull****.

i would also love to hear what pryor has to say. keep us posted.

[Azteca]

re oldgringo:
you are correct. at the time, i will admit, leonard did have bigger fish to fry. i heard one time on cbs in the 80's pryor called out leonard and leonard apparentely **** his pants. this may just be a rumour, i will try to find out.

what makes pryor so special is the unanswered questions about the man. an enigma. he was the most avoided man of his generation.

the problem with pryor is as a marketable product he fell between two stools: not the eloquent leonard and not the panamanian devil. hearns remembered as an amatuer he hit pryor clean again and again with clean punches for pryor to win. do not get me wrong they would have fought him if the money was right, however, it was more lucrative for them to fight amongst themselves and not invite Pryor to the party. sadly, we will never know how great those fights would have been.

[Azteca]

what if:
de jesus won the rubber match with duran.

[SABBATH]

re sabbath:
my above post refers to an interview where leonard goes over his career. leonard says these exact words: 'i moved out of pryor's weight catagory, to avoid him, the man was too dangerous.' leonard was one of the smartest fighters ever from a business sense. he was always able to manipulate his way around certain deals because he was the media darling.

again, leonard released pryor from training, FACT, not the other way around. to state pryor was battered in sparring is bull****.

i would also love to hear what pryor has to say. Keep us posted.

The sparring session reputedly happened in the amateurs there was no releasing of anyone as they were both sharing the same camp although I did also read that it was in the pros and Pryor was fired after a couple of weeks.

I don't know where you are getting the term battered from. I never said that. I said Leonard "got the better" of Pryor meaning he had the upper hand during their sessions.

I watched Pryor spar close to a hundred rounds live in his prime and he was very wild and sometimes off balance and sloppy in sparring. I saw him get dropped by an 18 year old amateur, who believe it or not was his best sparring partner. Pryor also used Jerome Artis and Darryl Anthony and neither had the success against Pryor that the 18 year old had. I asked Aaron a coule of years ago who the kid was but he couldn't remember.

I'll speak to him and get back to this forum with his answer.

[Azteca]

The sparring session reputedly happened in the amateurs there was no releasing of anyone as they were both sharing the same camp although I did also read that it was in the pros and Pryor was fired after a couple of weeks.

I don't know where you are getting the term battered from. I never said that. I said Leonard "got the better" of Pryor meaning he had the upper hand during their sessions.

I watched Pryor spar close to a hundred rounds live in his prime and he was very wild and sometimes off balance and sloppy in sparring. I saw him get dropped by an 18 year old amateur, who believe it or not was his best sparring partner. Pryor also used Jerome Artis and Darryl Anthony and neither had the success against Pryor that the 18 year old had. I asked Aaron a coule of years ago who the kid was but he couldn't remember.

I'll speak to him and get back to this forum with his answer.

re sabbath:
very nice. it would be great if you could get back to the forum with his answers.