A Peculiar Offer By Dempsey: Winner Take All vs. Wills

[BattlingNelson]

Fine work in this thread folks.

Regarding the use of derogatory terms for black people, this is a slight spin off so please forgive me, Gunboat Smith used the real n-bomb repeatedly when interviewed by Peter Heller in the outstanding book “In this corner...”
That interview was in 1970.

Smith was ko’ed by Wills in a single round in his final fight in 1921. Heller called Wills an “outstanding negro heavyweight”. That was in 1973.

A final remark regarding something from an earlier thread: Gunboat Smith mentioned how he hit Jess Willard with a right hand in the 10. Round that tore Willard’s ear off.

Why do I mention that? Well because Smith goes on to say: “God. I, of course, had my gloves ‘loaded’. I had insulation tape laid across my hands”.

Pretty interesting. Wild West back then.

[HOUDINI563]

BS. You have implied Many times that Dempsey was racist.

You over and over quote him drawing the color line but never explain the background as to why he did so.

Do all this and then state...but no I don't think Dempsey was racist does not cut it.

[travestyny]

BS. You have implied Many times that Dempsey was racist.

You over and over quote him drawing the color line but never explain the background as to why he did so.

Do all this and then state...but no I don't think Dempsey was racist does not cut it.

YOU ARE STILL GOING DESPITE ME SHOWING PROOF THAT I DIDN'T?????

UNBELIEVABLE Why can't you just admit that you are wrong????

ME STATING THAT DEMPSEY DREW THE COLOR LINE DOESN'T MEAN I'M SAYING THAT HE IS A RACIST. IT'S SIMPLY A FACT. HE DID DRAW THE COLOR LINE. TWICE.


Do you dispute this????

[HOUDINI563]

Tell everyone what is your intention when you going on and on about Dempsey drawing the color line but not explaining the background as to why?

You form open ended scenarios to lead those that are uninformed down a path to make them conclude Dempsey was racist.

[BattlingNelson]

Tell everyone what is your intention when you going on and on about Dempsey drawing the color line but not explaining the background as to why?

You form open ended scenarios to lead those that are uninformed down a path to make them conclude Dempsey was racist.

Dude. It’s a well known fact that Dempsey threw the colorline. It is what it is. Times were different back then, and racism by today’s standards is not how one should judge people of yesteryear imo.

[travestyny]

Tell everyone what is your intention when you going on and on about Dempsey drawing the color line but not explaining the background as to why?

You form open ended scenarios to lead those that are uninformed down a path to make them conclude Dempsey was racist.

Dude, we were discussing him not fighting Wills. Why would I not mention him drawing the color line???? How is that connected with you accusing me of calling him a racist when I'm simply stating a fact?

The point is he stated himself that Wills was the only man he wanted to fight since 1919, yet he drew the color line that very year. He then erased it, let's say a year later, then drew it again, let's say a year later (because I don't feel like going back and verifying the years, but that is probably accurate). He even mentioned Wills specifically the second time that he drew the color line.

And I haven't gone on and on about the color line. That must be in your head. If anything, I went on and on about the contract that he broke. The color line was erased by him, twice!

[HOUDINI563]

So you know the history of Dempsey drawing the color line but you don't know the history OF the color line NOR the reasons Dempsey drew and rescinded it? Hardly.

You continually paint open ended scenarios to paint a historically incorrect picture. You ignore the known history as to WHY events occurred. You choose to keep that history to yourself...why?

Suggest you convey the entire history rather than the continual cherry picking.

[travestyny]

So you know the history of Dempsey drawing the color line but you don't know the history OF the color line NOR the reasons Dempsey drew and rescinded it? Hardly.

What are you not understanding about this? I have NEVER stated that he drew the color line because he was racist. I stated that he drew the color line. HE EVEN ERASED THE COLOR LINE AND THEN DREW IT AGAIN. Why would he erase it, saying that he was willing to fight anyone, and then draw it again. That he erased it means that he was willing to fight black heavyweights, and then drawing it again meant that now he was not willing to fight black heavyweights. Of course that is relevant to whether he wanted to fight Wills since 1919 since Wills was....A BLACK HEAVYWEIGHT. And it was also relevant because Dempsey stated that he never drew the color-line. It was an outright lie!

You continually paint open ended scenarios to paint a historically incorrect picture. You ignore the known history as to WHY events occurred. You choose to keep that history to yourself...why?

Suggest you convey the entire history rather than the continual cherry picking.

I went through the entire history, as you asked me to do. I asked you to look at one specific incident, and you've avoided it like the plague.


Can you answer this:

1. Did Jack Dempsey say that Wills was the ONLY man he wanted to fight since 1919?

2. Did Jack Dempsey sign a valid contract to fight Harry Wills, and then break the contract, while all of the stipulations of the contract were followed by the promoter and Dempsey could have even walked away with a free $300,000 if the fight didn't come off?


Can you answer this, since you keep coming in here accusing me of saying Dempsey was a racist, being proven wrong about that, and won't even give an apology for incorrectly accusing me.

I'll await your reply.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

I don't think you have the right edition of that autobiography. Clay Moyle, who is a well respected writer, quoted the autobiography with the word "negro" written in it. It was also Clay Moyle's post where I got the information about that Ebony ****zine post.

Why would Clay Moyle, or anyone for that matter, make this up?

He claims it was on page 182-183 of his edition of the autobiography.


Then claims this was the article in Ebony ****zine.



The quotation with the "gypped" quotation was why I asked you if that was in your version of the autobiography. I have a feeling it was later edited out, along with any other reference to "negro."

Then there are the other newspaper articles where he is quoted as using the term "negro." Of course he used the word. It would be silly for so many people to change this word just because they hated black people, or to try to paint him as a racist.

That's not his autobiography you're quoting that's a biography by Bob Considine & Bill Slocum. It's the story that Bob and Bill claim was told to them by Dempsey.

The version I have is just called "Dempsey" and it's 100% by him. Genuine autobiography. What you are referring to is "Dempsey, By the Man Himself".

And that's not the ebony article, that's a post by a user on the internet. I'd like the real unalterable article.

[travestyny]

That's not his autobiography you're quoting that's a biography by Bob Considine & Bill Slocum. It's the story that Bob and Bill claim was told to them by Dempsey.

The version I have is just called "Dempsey" and it's 100% by him. Genuine autobiography. What you are referring to is "Dempsey, By the Man Himself".

And that's not the ebony article, that's a post by a user on the internet. I'd like the real unalterable article.

The question is, why do you believe all of these people, including newspapers that provide direct quotations, are changing his words to say "negro."

That makes no sense.


And why would "Dempsey: By the man himself" not be...BY THE MAN HIMSELF?