Question about an old picture

[Sloan]

Back in the mid-70s we were clearing out my grandmother's house and found an old picture covered with cobwebs in the back of a closet. the photograph and frame measures roughly 20x16 and shows a group picture of 9 folks in suits. There are also three belts being held. The captions under each of the men left to right read...

Mr. Ted Lewis
"Editor"
London Times

Tony Zale
Ex Middleweight
Champion

Abe Green
New Jersey
Boxing Commissioner

Marrel Cerdan
Middleweight
Champion of the
World

George
Carpenter
Ex Champion
of France

Nat Fleitcher
Ring Magazine

Jack
Dempsey
Ex Champion

Eddie Eagan
New York State
Boxing Commissioner

Frank Marrell
Defeated Billy Papke
For the Middleweight
Championship of the
World in 20 Rounds
Feb 22nd 1912
Sacramento
Cal

Ted Lewis and Tony Zale are each holding a belt.
Marrel Cerdan and Nat Fleitcher are both holding the 3rd belt. (George Carpenter is behind them.)

My boxing knowledge doesn't go much beyond what I see in the headlines (and Rocky movies), but I do recognize Jack Dempsey's name. I'm curious if anyone might know the back story of this picture.

I'd upload a picture of the photograph, but it looks like that function is blocked for me. I'm guessing it has something to do with me being a newbie.

[BattlingNelson]

You have to make a certain amount of posts before being able to upload pictures. You can post some spam in one of the spam threads on theforum.

[Sloan]

Thanks BN. Might have to do a few fly-by posts and see if I can get the option to come up. Tried to post a photo in my gallery, but that didn't work either.

Maybe if I can get the photo posted I might get some better feedback.

[BattlingNelson]

Thanks BN. Might have to do a few fly-by posts and see if I can get the option to come up. Tried to post a photo in my gallery, but that didn't work either.

Maybe if I can get the photo posted I might get some better feedback.

A lot of posters use this thread:

http://krikya360.com/forums/sh...php?p=16767406

[Sloan]

Managed to get on uploaded to my gallery, but it won't allow me to post a link to it until I get to 15 posts.

12 more to go now. Unfortunately, I gotta get on a plane. It'll be a few days before I can get around to making the posts.

[- Ram Raid -]

Quite a picture. Six of those nine are International Boxing Hall of Fame inductees, the exceptions being Lewis, Eagan and Mantell.

Marking Marcel Cerdan as the middleweight champion would suggest the picture was taken between 21-9-1948 when he took the title from Tony Zale (probably best remembered for his fights with Rocky Graziano) in a bout that The Ring magazine named Fight of the Year and 16-6-1949 when he lost the title to Jake LaMotta (who Robert DeNiro played in the film Raging Bull).

Nat Fleischer was the esteemed founder and 50 year editor-in-cheif of The Ring magazine who pioneered the concept of boxing rankings and is widely credited for coining the term 'pound for pound' to describe the great Sugar Ray Robinson.

The belts that they're holding are from the National Boxing Association. Founded in 1921 in the United States it changed its name in 1962 to the one it still uses, the World Boxing Association. At the time this picture was probably taken only Massachusetts and New York weren't members of the NBA. New York came under the jurisdiction of the powerful New York State Athletic Commission. The NBA and NYSAC were the two major boxing sanctioning bodies for much of the 20th century.

Eddie Eagan, who won light heavyweight Gold at the 1920 Olympics was the chairman of the NYSAC between 1945-1951. Abe Greene was appointed commissioner of the New Jersey Athletic Commission in 1937 and by 1941 was the president of the NBA. In the late 40's he was made commissioner of the organisation, a post that was created especially for him. His was highly regarded and credited with cleaning up boxing in New Jersey.

Jack Dempsey, who you know, is considered one of the heavyweight division's all time great fighters and ushered in an all action style at the weight. Dempsey and George Carpentier (the smaller man by at least 20lbs) fought each other in 1921 in a purpose built 80,000 capacity stadium at Boyle's Thirty Acres in a fight dubbed the 'fight of the Century'. It was the first 'million dollar gate' in boxing setting a then record of $1,789,238. It was also credited as being the first bout to allow women to attend. Dempsey's legendary promoter Tex Richard (often reffed to as the P. T. Barnum of boxing for his ability to sell a fight) fed on the public's negative perception of the American fighter by billing the fight as a draft dodger vs a war hero. Dempsey won by K.O in the 4th. Four years later Rickard built the third incarnation of Madison Square Garden.

The lesser known boxer in the picture is the German born Frank Otto Mintell otherwise known as Frank Mantell. The editor of the London Times, Ted Lewis is someone I've never heard of and have been unable to find anything about.

Thanks for sharing it. My guess is that it would have been taken at a function or honorary dinner, maybe even something to do with the Fight of the Year award.

[BattlingNelson]

Quite a picture. Six of those nine are International Boxing Hall of Fame inductees, the exceptions being Lewis, Eagan and Mantell.

Marking Marcel Cerdan as the middleweight champion would suggest the picture was taken between 21-9-1948 when he took the title from Tony Zale (probably best remembered for his fights with Rocky Graziano) in a bout that The Ring magazine named Fight of the Year and 16-6-1949 when he lost the title to Jake LaMotta (who Robert DeNiro played in the film Raging Bull).

Nat Fleischer was the esteemed founder and 50 year editor-in-cheif of The Ring magazine who pioneered the concept of boxing rankings and is widely credited for coining the term 'pound for pound' to describe the great Sugar Ray Robinson.

The belts that they're holding are from the National Boxing Association. Founded in 1921 in the United States it changed its name in 1962 to the one it still uses, the World Boxing Association. At the time this picture was probably taken only Massachusetts and New York weren't members of the NBA. New York came under the jurisdiction of the powerful New York State Athletic Commission. The NBA and NYSAC were the two major boxing sanctioning bodies for much of the 20th century.

Eddie Eagan, who won light heavyweight Gold at the 1920 Olympics was the chairman of the NYSAC between 1945-1951. Abe Greene was appointed commissioner of the New Jersey Athletic Commission in 1937 and by 1941 was the president of the NBA. In the late 40's he was made commissioner of the organisation, a post that was created especially for him. His was highly regarded and credited with cleaning up boxing in New Jersey.

Jack Dempsey, who you know, is considered one of the heavyweight division's all time great fighters and ushered in an all action style at the weight. Dempsey and George Carpentier (the smaller man by at least 20lbs) fought each other in 1921 in a purpose built 80,000 capacity stadium at Boyle's Thirty Acres in a fight dubbed the 'fight of the Century'. It was the first 'million dollar gate' in boxing setting a then record of $1,789,238. It was also credited as being the first bout to allow women to attend. Dempsey's legendary promoter Tex Richard (often reffed to as the P. T. Barnum of boxing for his ability to sell a fight) fed on the public's negative perception of the American fighter by billing the fight as a draft dodger vs a war hero. Dempsey won by K.O in the 4th. Four years later Rickard built the third incarnation of Madison Square Garden.

The lesser known boxer in the picture is the German born Frank Otto Mintell otherwise known as Frank Mantell. The editor of the London Times, Ted Lewis is someone I've never heard of and have been unable to find anything about.

Thanks for sharing it. My guess is that it would have been taken at a function or honorary dinner, maybe even something to do with the Fight of the Year award.

Good stuff!!

[Anthony342]

Cleaning up boxing huh? Why aren't there guys today doing that? Then maybe casual viewers might actually give a crap about boxing again, like we last did in the '90s.

[Sloan]

Sorry for the late response. Just got back from South America yesterday.

Thanks for posting the picture Mastrangelo.

Awesome write up Ram!! Now, if I can only get someone to buy the picture for a couple million dollars I'll be good to go!! In the meantime, it's hanging on a wall in my living room.

Again, thanks for the help everyone!

[Weltschmerz]

Quite a picture. Six of those nine are International Boxing Hall of Fame inductees, the exceptions being Lewis, Eagan and Mantell.

Marking Marcel Cerdan as the middleweight champion would suggest the picture was taken between 21-9-1948 when he took the title from Tony Zale (probably best remembered for his fights with Rocky Graziano) in a bout that The Ring magazine named Fight of the Year and 16-6-1949 when he lost the title to Jake LaMotta (who Robert DeNiro played in the film Raging Bull).

Nat Fleischer was the esteemed founder and 50 year editor-in-cheif of The Ring magazine who pioneered the concept of boxing rankings and is widely credited for coining the term 'pound for pound' to describe the great Sugar Ray Robinson.

The belts that they're holding are from the National Boxing Association. Founded in 1921 in the United States it changed its name in 1962 to the one it still uses, the World Boxing Association. At the time this picture was probably taken only Massachusetts and New York weren't members of the NBA. New York came under the jurisdiction of the powerful New York State Athletic Commission. The NBA and NYSAC were the two major boxing sanctioning bodies for much of the 20th century.

Eddie Eagan, who won light heavyweight Gold at the 1920 Olympics was the chairman of the NYSAC between 1945-1951. Abe Greene was appointed commissioner of the New Jersey Athletic Commission in 1937 and by 1941 was the president of the NBA. In the late 40's he was made commissioner of the organisation, a post that was created especially for him. His was highly regarded and credited with cleaning up boxing in New Jersey.

Jack Dempsey, who you know, is considered one of the heavyweight division's all time great fighters and ushered in an all action style at the weight. Dempsey and George Carpentier (the smaller man by at least 20lbs) fought each other in 1921 in a purpose built 80,000 capacity stadium at Boyle's Thirty Acres in a fight dubbed the 'fight of the Century'. It was the first 'million dollar gate' in boxing setting a then record of $1,789,238. It was also credited as being the first bout to allow women to attend. Dempsey's legendary promoter Tex Richard (often reffed to as the P. T. Barnum of boxing for his ability to sell a fight) fed on the public's negative perception of the American fighter by billing the fight as a draft dodger vs a war hero. Dempsey won by K.O in the 4th. Four years later Rickard built the third incarnation of Madison Square Garden.

The lesser known boxer in the picture is the German born Frank Otto Mintell otherwise known as Frank Mantell. The editor of the London Times, Ted Lewis is someone I've never heard of and have been unable to find anything about.

Thanks for sharing it. My guess is that it would have been taken at a function or honorary dinner, maybe even something to do with the Fight of the Year award.

Thanks, that was interesting. Green K incoming.