Wille Pep and Sandy Saddler

[The Old LefHook]

Any great fighter is fortunate to have a great nemesis as a contemporary. Monzon never really had one. Many other fine fighters did not.

Without each other, both Pep and Saddler might drop five or six positions on the ATG list. A great nemesis makes a huge difference. Calzaghe had them but did not make use of his nemeses overseas until they were washed out shells. Shame on him.

Pep and Saddler used the advantage to its fullest, engaging in four contests. Hence, they are never forgotten when lists are drawn out. Nor are there complainers and naysayers and exceptionists as shall exist for a long time in MW discussions of ATGness.

It is the nemesis factor alone which immortalized Gatti and his club fighter nemesis. You cannot immortalize one without the other.

[joeandthebums]

Pep's typical holding tactics could certainly be illegal so Pep wasn't exactly a 'clean' fighter himself never mind the rest of his antics in the Saddler fights.

I'm of a similar mind, I am no doubt in the minority but I do feel that Pep made the fourth fight dirty almost in an attempt to discredit Saddler's inevitable victory.

What I find interesting about Pep is that he 'quit' in two of the Saddler fights and yet his heart doesn't seem to get questioned when i'm sure other fighters heart would be. Also Pep probably took a dive in at least one (Perez) fight, maybe two (Collins). Pep does seem to be above reproach.

I think Pep's win in their second contest was his greatest performance, his display of skill and heart was tremendous. The punishment he absorbed in order to see out that fight to the end was pretty substantial - and something he was not able to endure again, be it either physically or mentally.

Well we have the Jones Tarver trilogy....But there was such a disparity that this issue of who is better never came up.

Good pick.

I scored the Pacquaio-Marquez fights 3-0-1 in favour of Marquez. Certainly debatable but even though I scored it that way I'd still consider Pacquaio to be a better fighter than Marquez. Styles do make fights after all.

Good spot. Would have to go back and re-watch to give an opinion on how I saw the series, but from memory I thought it was pretty even overall.

There is the Cocoa Kid-Holman Williams series. Difficult to judge considering lack of footage but Im sure all would rank Williams higher.

Excellent choice. Have to be honest and did not realize the two fought each as many times as they did. 13 times. 8-3-2 to Cocoa Kid over the series.

I consider both highly and haven't given much thought with regards to whose above who, but yes for scalps I would have to give it to Williams.

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Good points and made me see my error with original comment.

What we have to remember, Pep was no longer a prime fighter and was coming back from a terrible accident.

I could go for Pep being a bit career worn by the time of the Saddler fights, but the accident had been 21 months previous and Pep had engaged in 26 fights in anticipation of facing Saddler.

Pep and Saddler used the advantage to its fullest, engaging in four contests.

Saddler gave Pep a shot at his title four months after taking it.
Pep gave Saddler a return after nineteen months.

[The Old LefHook]

I'm of a similar mind, I am no doubt in the minority but I do feel that Pep made the fourth fight dirty almost in an attempt to discredit Saddler's inevitable victory.

I think Pep's win in their second contest was his greatest performance, his display of skill and heart was tremendous. The punishment he absorbed in order to see out that fight to the end was pretty substantial - and something he was not able to endure again, be it either physically or mentally.


I could go for Pep being a bit career worn by the time of the Saddler fights, but the accident had been 21 months previous and Pep had engaged in 26 fights in anticipation of facing Saddler.

Saddler gave Pep a shot at his title four months after taking it.
Pep gave Saddler a return after nineteen months.

No, he could never endure that again and rise to such a height. It is amazing that he did it once. Not surprising he made Sandy wait. Willie must have known the likely result. Those are still some of the best fights on film IMO. Would not have been possible without Willie's brilliance against the octopus. Besides a complete bag of tricks, Willie had superlative footwork. The best feet I have ever seen.