was there slippage for larry holmes

[rightsideup]

When he lost to Mike Spinks or are we not giving Micheal enough credit for his performances

[Scott9945]

Unimpressive wins over David Bey and Carl Williams foreshadowed the decline of Holmes. I was still surprised that he lost to a lightheavyweight though.

[Ray Corso]

He was in decline at that time, he still won over Spinks. I feel you must "take" a title and Spinks got a gift and Holmes got punished for his Marciano comments. The powers to be were still involved then and they hated Holmes.
He was NOT in his prime, after his first dozen years his reactions slowed and he lost mobility. He still had decent speed and could put combos together but his accuracy decined too.
Spinks fought smart simular to Conn vs Louis but again I don't see Spinks dominating he hit and ran and possibly out scored Holmes but it wasn't
"taking" the title.
Its just the way I feel about losing a belt. The same goes for a titlists who doesn't defend within a certain manditory time. Strip him!

Ray

[juggernaut666]

When he lost to Mike Spinks or are we not giving Micheal enough credit for his performances

Larry was not the biggest of HW's he became stronger in his late 30's/early ....40's against Spinks he was only 210 pounds he was faster but speed is no match for timing and smarts,and that was Larry Holmes a tacticle /patient fighter...really it was a speed contest when he fought spinks,neither were power punchers...I though Holmes won the rematch...and it had nothing to do with the Marciano comments....those comments were made After the fight....though the Marcianos being there certainly would suade the judges and the boxing historians who try and save face to its past time greats,to debunk Holmes and give him the L.

Holmes going the distance with Holyfield and beating a prime Mercer who is clearly better than Spinks is no indication he was better in the 80's than the 90's.

[rightsideup]

I think Larry's peak was in 1981,82 his experience caused him to contend latter but he was clearly not as fast

[juggernaut666]

I think Larry's peak was in 1981,82 his experience caused him to contend latter but he was clearly not as fast

If that was the case he is highly overatted,Holmes should never struggle with the likes of spinks if we are to believe he is a top 5 ATG.....I highly doubt Spinks would be a competitive fight for a late 80's Holmes!As stated an experienced fighter who is more durable would be far more effective than a faster less physically stronger one.Holmes also has controversial wins in those early 80's himself,one being Witherspoon.I'll take the holmes who defeated Mercer anyday. experience is exactly why Holmes was a harder fighter to contend with ,he fought a full decade after Tyson in 88.Much like foreman he bettered himself without having to be faster...Holmes still had a whipping jab,i would say the speed factor is very minuscule up until he was in his mid 40's.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Of course larry was in decline.... He was a major play at heavy for close to a decade...


And Spinks was a special fighter.. He would have given hell to any heavyweight in history

[sonnyboyx2]

He was in decline at that time, he still won over Spinks. I feel you must "take" a title and Spinks got a gift and Holmes got punished for his Marciano comments. The powers to be were still involved then and they hated Holmes.
He was NOT in his prime, after his first dozen years his reactions slowed and he lost mobility. He still had decent speed and could put combos together but his accuracy decined too.
Spinks fought smart simular to Conn vs Louis but again I don't see Spinks dominating he hit and ran and possibly out scored Holmes but it wasn't
"taking" the title.
Its just the way I feel about losing a belt. The same goes for a titlists who doesn't defend within a certain manditory time. Strip him!

Ray

How did he still won over Spinks?... Who punished him for his comments?

Holmes lost the fight by a clear 10-5rds with the judges scorecards all in favor of Michael Spinks... We often hear of how great Holmes jab is/was. Yet Spinks beat him to the jab and out jabbed Holmes for 30rds. The sport of boxing is to hit and not get hit, well Michael Spinks done just that. He out-scored Holmes for a comfortable clear-cut victory.

Their return fight was more of the same stuff with Holmes fighting in "Angry-Mode" yet still losing a close decision.

I dont feel there was any "Fixing" or protecting of Marciano's record etc. Larry Holmes lost both fights, with the second fight being close. The first fight if the decision went to Holmes would have been a travisty.

Was Holmes on the slide?... Yes he was losing his legs.

Credit has to go to Michael Spinks who was one of the best 175lb fighters ever.

[The Old LefHook]

He was in decline at that time, he still won over Spinks. I feel you must "take" a title and Spinks got a gift and Holmes got punished for his Marciano comments. The powers to be were still involved then and they hated Holmes.
He was NOT in his prime, after his first dozen years his reactions slowed and he lost mobility. He still had decent speed and could put combos together but his accuracy decined too.
Spinks fought smart simular to Conn vs Louis but again I don't see Spinks dominating he hit and ran and possibly out scored Holmes but it wasn't
"taking" the title.
Its just the way I feel about losing a belt. The same goes for a titlists who doesn't defend within a certain manditory time. Strip him!

Ray

You nailed it once again, maestro. Folks who were not even around at the time to witness events when they occurred, now express strong opinions. Are we surprised? Yes, the powers that be were not going to allow a black who jumped on car hoods to have Rocky's record. You know, the same bunch who stripped Ali of his title without a trial.

My impressions at the time were that Holmes should have been awarded the decision. I saw Spiniks do nothing that impressed me. To be really sure I would have to watch it again, a daunting challenge with so boring a fight.

By that time Holmes was becoming a shell. He was never a great floater like Ali, but now he plain lumbered and looked as comical as one of the Klits trying to float..

[billeau2]

As long as there are judges like Adeline Bryd there will be room for fights to be fixed on that level. Bernard Hopkins also experienced this.