Muhammad Ali was not a great fighter

[SuzieQ49]

patterson beat,

archie moore
ingemmar johannson x2
tommy (hurricane) jackson x2
oscar bonavena
henry cooper

all on par if not better than most of the fighters you named.

jeezz, ur really screwing patterson.

U PUT henry cooper and hurricane jackson on the list, but no george chuvalo and eddie machen who were better fighters?

you forgot to include jerry quarry and jimmy ellis since patterson was robbed vs them



im sorry but ur very mistaken


walcott beat louis, charles who were better than any fighter patterson beat.

are u trying to tell me archie moore and jerry quarry was better than joe louis and ezzard charles?

walcott also beat a better list of contenders than patterson did


charles beat walcott who was a better fighter than any fighter patterson ever beat


charles also beat a better list of contenders than patterson.



archie moore, past prime louis, bivins, ray, johnson(robbery) were better wins than ellis(robbery), quarry(robbery), archie moore, bonavena, past prime machen.




so how does pattersons win resume on par with walcott and charles?




the best heavyweight patterson ever beat was either Johansen, quarry(robbery) or moore.

[SuzieQ49]

how bout we throw the bad decisions out and include only "official wins"


walcott still beat better comp than patterson


elmer ray, ezzard charles, harold johnson, jimmy bivins, were better wins than ingemar johannsen, archie moore, oscar bonavena, over the hill machen.



as for charles


past prime joe louis, walcott, moore , ray were better wins than moore, ingo, bonavena, and past prime machen.




im not trying to take anything away from patterson. I think hes underated. hes in my top 20 heavies of all time, defintley. i think patterson vs walcott and charles would be very close fights

[butterfly1964]

how bout we throw the bad decisions out and include only "official wins"


walcott still beat better comp than patterson


elmer ray, ezzard charles, harold johnson, jimmy bivins, were better wins than ingemar johannsen, archie moore, oscar bonavena, over the hill machen.



as for charles


past prime joe louis, walcott, moore , ray were better wins than moore, ingo, bonavena, and past prime machen.




im not trying to take anything away from patterson. I think hes underated. hes in my top 20 heavies of all time, defintley. i think patterson vs walcott and charles would be very close fights

yeah, but i see floyd winning.

[SuzieQ49]

yeah, but i see floyd winning.

how do u base this conclusion?


did u ever see ezzard charles pre 1950?

watch charles agaisnt pat valentino 1949, honest to god he looks like sugar ray robinson . watch charles footwork in this fight, its amazing

I expect charles to outbox patterson from a distance the whole fight and up close, charles will outfight floyd on the inside. charles could **** too, he had a lot of snap in his punches and he was a cutter. floyds face will be swollen badly by the end of this fight. i expect floyd to drop patterson early, floyds a very hard puncher and his handspeed will catch charles off gaurd a few times. I also see charles flooring floyd with one of his counterpunches. patterson would score some big points along the way with his power punches and aggression but charles better ring skills will help him prevail over the distance.


1949 charles vs 1960 patterson

charles 15 close but clear unanimous


patterson loved to brawl, and I think that would be a mistake against a bigger, stronger walcott. Walcott had the better chin than patterson and I believe he would win the battle on the inside. watch the louis fight, walcott shows incredible craftiness, mobility, speed.

one thing walcott will have to watch out for is pattersons leapy left hook when walcott goes into his shuffle.

patterson his whole career was susceptible to big counter rights, so i suspect walcotts sneaky right hand to do a lot of damage when it lands on patterson much like ingos right hand

walcott would outbox patterson from a distance with his hammer like jab and his slickness, agility, mobility will help him evade pattersons lightniting fast blows which walcott will counter with big uppercuts and hooks. I do think pattersons handspeed would give walcott fits, but walcott had pretty fast hands himself. pattersons willingness to brawl will be his downfall in this fight.

johannsen wasnt as good a puncher as walcott IMO, but floyd couldnt deal with johannsens punches. quarry put down patterson 3 times in 2 fights.



1947 walcott vs 1960 floyd patterson?


walcott TKO 13 patterson- even fight until stoppage

[moy22487]

i also heard he wasnt black, hes a dark mexican. true story

[Frazier's 15th round]

Anyways, I made the thread, so I have the final say. Ali was not a great fighter, he was an okay fighter. But many, such as Frazier, Young, and Wepner, exposed him. Ali was chinny, as evidenced by Henry Cooper and Sonny Banks. The rest of his big wins were fixed fights.

If you think any differently, then you are an uncle tom.

[hellfire508]

I'm torn between the resumes of Patterson and Walcott. Walcott beat the likes of Louis (counting robberies), Ray, Maxim, Bivins and Charles. Patterson beat Bonavena, Ellis and Quarry (again counting robberies - though I'm only going by readings), Machen, Cooper, Johansson and Chuvalo. Both are extremely impressive resumes. Louis is obviously the biggest victory for Walcott, yet it was a faded Louis, and officially a loss.

I think the resumes are pretty much on par with each other.

[butterfly1964]

Anyways, I made the thread, so I have the final say. Ali was not a great fighter, he was an okay fighter. But many, such as Frazier, Young, and Wepner, exposed him. Ali was chinny, as evidenced by Henry Cooper and Sonny Banks. The rest of his big wins were fixed fights.

If you think any differently, then you are an uncle tom.

there's nothing to say about that statement.

[butterfly1964]

how do u base this conclusion?


did u ever see ezzard charles pre 1950?

watch charles agaisnt pat valentino 1949, honest to god he looks like sugar ray robinson . watch charles footwork in this fight, its amazing

I expect charles to outbox patterson from a distance the whole fight and up close, charles will outfight floyd on the inside. charles could **** too, he had a lot of snap in his punches and he was a cutter. floyds face will be swollen badly by the end of this fight. i expect floyd to drop patterson early, floyds a very hard puncher and his handspeed will catch charles off gaurd a few times. I also see charles flooring floyd with one of his counterpunches. patterson would score some big points along the way with his power punches and aggression but charles better ring skills will help him prevail over the distance.


1949 charles vs 1960 patterson

charles 15 close but clear unanimous


patterson loved to brawl, and I think that would be a mistake against a bigger, stronger walcott. Walcott had the better chin than patterson and I believe he would win the battle on the inside. watch the louis fight, walcott shows incredible craftiness, mobility, speed.

one thing walcott will have to watch out for is pattersons leapy left hook when walcott goes into his shuffle.

patterson his whole career was susceptible to big counter rights, so i suspect walcotts sneaky right hand to do a lot of damage when it lands on patterson much like ingos right hand

walcott would outbox patterson from a distance with his hammer like jab and his slickness, agility, mobility will help him evade pattersons lightniting fast blows which walcott will counter with big uppercuts and hooks. I do think pattersons handspeed would give walcott fits, but walcott had pretty fast hands himself. pattersons willingness to brawl will be his downfall in this fight.

johannsen wasnt as good a puncher as walcott IMO, but floyd couldnt deal with johannsens punches. quarry put down patterson 3 times in 2 fights.



1947 walcott vs 1960 floyd patterson?


walcott TKO 13 patterson- even fight until stoppage

patterson punches harder than both and has quicker hands than both, so patterson would knock them both out.

[-Antonio-]

another thing

idk if this has been touched on, but you also have to look at the fact that Ali was absent for over 3 years due to legal problems in what was probably the prime of his career.