Who Would get Knocked Down First if prime liston vs prime tyson...........

[butterfly1964]

For your information, it was when Roy Jones Jr. got up to heavyweight that this test was performed, just to check and see if he still had hand speed. He was in his 30's and the ratio of punches per count was quicker than Ali when he was in his 20's.

let me ask you a question. what ali footage did they use to do the testing?

[butterfly1964]

Butterfly, I don't mean to dis you, but any time any form of question of Ali's talent comes into question, your there arguing or asking questions. It's quite funny really, so i'm not annoyed, but I'm just pointing it out.

i'm just trying to correct any misconceptions of ali's ability.

[Brassangel]

I must say that I am glad to see people like Yogi and Dude on here. They post intelligent arguments with their research in tact. These are the kind(s) of people I like to banter with.

Now, the research for Ali's hand speed in his prime vs. the hand speed of other boxers is not a matter of what footage was used. I am going to deny you a complete answer, Butterfly, because the three different examples used (all from the 60's) in the testing will only pull comments from you like, "Oh, well Ali had an off night," or, "He didn't train for that fight," or your universal answer, "He was passed his prime in any fight where he looked remotely sloppy because he's perfect...". This thread should really be closed anyway as the argument of Tyson vs. Liston is stuck in a string of circular reasoning and repeated comments. The absolute truth is we will never know who would have KO'd who; both guys had tempers and a lack of heart. Both were intimidating, powerful punchers; one with speed, combos, and good defense. The other with reach and a solid jab. The only way to know would be to put them in the ring.

Now, I am always a guy who welcomes speculation, but this thread has turned into a back-and-forth, "Nu-uh!" "Yes-huh!" dispute that's really worthless. So....blah.

[butterfly1964]

I must say that I am glad to see people like Yogi and Dude on here. They post intelligent arguments with their research in tact. These are the kind(s) of people I like to banter with.

Now, the research for Ali's hand speed in his prime vs. the hand speed of other boxers is not a matter of what footage was used. I am going to deny you a complete answer, Butterfly, because the three different examples used (all from the 60's) in the testing will only pull comments from you like, "Oh, well Ali had an off night," or, "He didn't train for that fight," or your universal answer, "He was passed his prime in any fight where he looked remotely sloppy because he's perfect...". This thread should really be closed anyway as the argument of Tyson vs. Liston is stuck in a string of circular reasoning and repeated comments. The absolute truth is we will never know who would have KO'd who; both guys had tempers and a lack of heart. Both were intimidating, powerful punchers; one with speed, combos, and good defense. The other with reach and a solid jab. The only way to know would be to put them in the ring.

Now, I am always a guy who welcomes speculation, but this thread has turned into a back-and-forth, "Nu-uh!" "Yes-huh!" dispute that's really worthless. So....blah.

how much does jones jr. weigh as a hw?

[Brassangel]

Close enough...I figured you'd ask some question in hopes of getting an answer to try and defend Ali's imperfections. Nonetheless, I'll let you know that Jones, at age 36, was 8 pounds lighter than Ali, at 22. Jones put on weight, and his trainers said he looked sluggish. Even so, he clocked quicker numbers. Jones's foot speed was not quicker though; just his hand speed.

Just let it go, this thread is wasted on a conversation that should be somewhere else.

[butterfly1964]

Close enough...I figured you'd ask some question in hopes of getting an answer to try and defend Ali's imperfections. Nonetheless, I'll let you know that Jones, at age 36, was 8 pounds lighter than Ali, at 22. Jones put on weight, and his trainers said he looked sluggish. Even so, he clocked quicker numbers. Jones's foot speed was not quicker though; just his hand speed.

Just let it go, this thread is wasted on a conversation that should be somewhere else.

well, there you go. jones weighed about 202-204 acording to you, and plus jones is really a true middleweight, so he would still have the speed of a middleweight. no true hw has faster anything than a 20-25yr. old ali, and i think i've proved my point here.

[BKM-]

Enough about Ali already.

Now, who was more famous of having a guy down in a matter of seconds? Mike and Sonny both. Mike, he had trouble with big men like Smith, Green, Tillis etc so Liston would be a better target. Sonny Liston the same. All i know is Mike would NEVER EVER go down early or if he didn't take a very long beating. Sonny went down from a baby punch for crying out loud!! Ali was not even a ko puncher. It was real so no excuses. Imagine what an aggressive Tyson punch would do if it was landed correctly. Liston had a great Jab, Mike would eat them up. He was never out jabbed in his prime so that wouldn't work.

I won't say who would win, im saying who would get knocked down first. If Tyson gets some shots..done. If Liston gets him, he would have to keep punching, after all, Tyson NEVER went down by ONE punch to the chin.

[butterfly1964]

Enough about Ali already.

Now, who was more famous of having a guy down in a matter of seconds? Mike and Sonny both. Mike, he had trouble with big men like Smith, Green, Tillis etc so Liston would be a better target. Sonny Liston the same. All i know is Mike would NEVER EVER go down early or if he didn't take a very long beating. Sonny went down from a baby punch for crying out loud!! Ali was not even a ko puncher. It was real so no excuses. Imagine what an aggressive Tyson punch would do if it was landed correctly. Liston had a great Jab, Mike would eat them up. He was never out jabbed in his prime so that wouldn't work.

I won't say who would win, im saying who would get knocked down first. If Tyson gets some shots..done. If Liston gets him, he would have to keep punching, after all, Tyson NEVER went down by ONE punch to the chin.

any fool knows he threw that fight, so don't try to use that as something to strengthen your argument.

[Yogi]

It might be worth noting to some of you guys that Mike Tyson himself has said that there would only be one Heavyweight in history that could've intimidated him, and that man was...Take a guess!

[butterfly1964]

It might be worth noting to some of you guys that Mike Tyson himself has said that there would only be one Heavyweight in history that could've intimidated him, and that man was...Take a guess!

chaaaaaarles "sonnnyyyyyyyyyyy" liiiiiistoooooooonn!!!!!!!!!