Foreman vs. Ali - Foreman Fought Like a Bum

[Skydog]

I would be scared as hell to be Ali going into "Rumble In The Jungle".

Foreman said that he really wanted to take Ali's life in that match so people would start appreciating Foreman. I don't think Foreman's performance was bad, he just got overtired afterawhile and got destroyed by one of the meanest combinations I've ever seen.

My favorite part of the match is at the very end of either round 4 or 5 where Ali staggers Foreman with 4 hooks: left, right, left, right. Some of the quickest hits in history.

[Foreman]

An unusual confluence of events made Ali's win possible. Foreman getting cut in training and not being allowed to leave the country. Very loose ropes. The possibility of Foreman having been drugged before the fight. Ali's trainer, Angelo Dundee believes that he was. And really was George's game plan all that bad? Nobody could have expected a fighter to last 8 rds with Foreman by just standing there and taking punishment. There was a fair amount of luck involved that Ali avoided taking a shot that he couldn't take. That Ali refused to give Foreman a rematch speaks volumes of what Ali thought of his chances.

[pugay_kamay]

ESPN Classic just aired (for the 357th time) the "Rumble In The Jungle" Ali-Foreman.

It never ceases to amaze me justhow inept George Foreman looked in that fight.
You can say Ali made him look that way.....but, Ali did virtually nothing....& Foreman looked like a complete idiot.
He looked like a big mummy, pushing his fists, pawing with them, while stumbling forward.

He looked like a drunk who was dragged out of the audience to fight !
To this day, it remains one of the most embarrassing performances in Heavyweight Championship history.

Ali vs. Foreman bout is just like a match between an amatuer debut for aspiring boxers (in the case of Foreman) againts a professional boxer whose fighting career is more than 20!

A scientific approach against barbaric approach. Which do you think will succeed?

[tommyhearns804]

Foreman looked like all fighters do when they get ****y and think they can't lose.He didnt look like a bum.Tyson being knocked out by a Douglas is far worse than Foreman being ****y and losing to a hall of fame boxer.Ali was no smarter than Norton or lets say a guy like Peralta.The only difference is i am sure Foreman respected both Norton and Peralta.He had no respect at all for Ali and thought he would win when he landed the first big punch.Ali did nothing smart the whole fight.He just realize Foreman was to quick on his feet to outbox so he layed against the ropes praying Foreman got tired.Is that smart?Nope just a desperate plan to beat somebody who was better than he was.It worked that night.Does that mean Foreman couldnt box?Does that mean Foreman always got tired?No Foreman had 80 fights and was only tired in the Ali and Young fight.1 fight does not defind Foremans career.But Espn classic is obsessed with showing any fight Ali won.They forget the bouts when he has his ass handed to him.I only remember seeing the Ali Norton one time.I never seen the other 2 times they fight.They never show Shavers beating Ali and getting robbed.They never show Ali losing to Young but every single weed it seems like they show Ali beating Foreman.

[tommyhearns804]

And one more thing if Ali was such a smart boxer and so skilled then why does he have brain damage now and Foreman doesnt?Is it funny that Ali has brain damage?Nope .But it shows my point.Either Ali didnt have a better thin than Foreman or Ali was a dumb fighter.Smart fighters dont keep fighting when bums like Leon Spinks could beat them.Smart fighters dont keep their hands low and let guys like Cooper floor them with one punch.
Ali looked impressive when he was fighting guys like Chuvalo who came right at him slow.But when he started fighting better fighters like Norton Lyle Frazier ect ect ect you how flawed of a fighter he was.Fast hands and a big heart and a quick mouth but he lacked so many other things

[Skydog]

Foreman looked like all fighters do when they get ****y and think they can't lose.He didnt look like a bum.Tyson being knocked out by a Douglas is far worse than Foreman being ****y and losing to a hall of fame boxer.Ali was no smarter than Norton or lets say a guy like Peralta.The only difference is i am sure Foreman respected both Norton and Peralta.He had no respect at all for Ali and thought he would win when he landed the first big punch.Ali did nothing smart the whole fight.He just realize Foreman was to quick on his feet to outbox so he layed against the ropes praying Foreman got tired.Is that smart?Nope just a desperate plan to beat somebody who was better than he was.It worked that night.Does that mean Foreman couldnt box?Does that mean Foreman always got tired?No Foreman had 80 fights and was only tired in the Ali and Young fight.1 fight does not defind Foremans career.But Espn classic is obsessed with showing any fight Ali won.They forget the bouts when he has his ass handed to him.I only remember seeing the Ali Norton one time.I never seen the other 2 times they fight.They never show Shavers beating Ali and getting robbed.They never show Ali losing to Young but every single weed it seems like they show Ali beating Foreman.

If you're gonna diss Ali in his fight against Norton, then you can just take a walk. Any man who can go 12 full rounds with a broken jaw is ungodly. And Ali did just that. Now if Ali had broken Norton's jaw in the first round, things would have been different. And not only did Ali go the distance with a shattered jaw, but he came back and beat Norton in a rematch.

And your calling Ali lucky against Foreman. He stated that was his plan before the match. "I ain't never seen George Foreman get tired, breathe heavily, get winded and try to fight." So no, he didn't get lucky at all.

[Pinoy_Texan]

Foreman fought that fight they way he usually did. He tried to intimidate his opponent with his power. Plus you gotta keep in mind that Foreman before that fight had never fought for that long. So he was threading unknown waters, while Ali owned the championship rounds.

[tommyhearns804]

Cute Skydog.Ali fought with a broken jaw.Your point is?Foreman fought with a broken nose so did alot of other fighters.The point is Norton beat him 3 times and got robbed in 2 of those fights.You never see Espn Classic have a day giving respect to any other heavyweight from the 70's but Ali.
And Ali did not say he was going to lay against the ropes and get Foreman tired before the fight.What Ali are you talking about?I think Ali knows what he was trying to do better than you do.In "The Life and Times or Ali" or whatever that book is called he clearly stated he was going to try to box Foreman.But once he got in the ring and tried this he realized Foreman was way to quick on his feet for him to outbox.Ali also said he knew he couldnt try to do anything while Foreman was fresh because Foreman hit to hard and he would be knocked out.Hoping somebody gets tired isnt a strategy.Foreman could of just backed away and boxed like he always boxed.Ali knew he was lucky to win and that is why he never gave Foreman a re-match.He fought Frazier 3 times Norton 3 times Liston 2 times Patterson 2 times Quarry 2 times Chuvalo 2 times Spinks 2 times but Foreman had to fight 5 more fights trying to get Ali to fight him again.Douglas beat Tyson but do you think he could do it again?Louis was destroyed by Schmeling but Louis got a chance to show he was the better man.
But anyway as i said they could show other fighters from the 70's or they could show Ali getting beat instead of trying to make a fool out of Foreman all of the time.

[shortright]

forman had holes in his game, ali exposed them, your right espn classic shows way to much Ali

[Dude]

Cute Skydog.Ali fought with a broken jaw.Your point is?Foreman fought with a broken nose so did alot of other fighters.The point is Norton beat him 3 times and got robbed in 2 of those fights.You never see Espn Classic have a day giving respect to any other heavyweight from the 70's but Ali.
And Ali did not say he was going to lay against the ropes and get Foreman tired before the fight.What Ali are you talking about?I think Ali knows what he was trying to do better than you do.In "The Life and Times or Ali" or whatever that book is called he clearly stated he was going to try to box Foreman.But once he got in the ring and tried this he realized Foreman was way to quick on his feet for him to outbox.Ali also said he knew he couldnt try to do anything while Foreman was fresh because Foreman hit to hard and he would be knocked out.Hoping somebody gets tired isnt a strategy.Foreman could of just backed away and boxed like he always boxed.Ali knew he was lucky to win and that is why he never gave Foreman a re-match.He fought Frazier 3 times Norton 3 times Liston 2 times Patterson 2 times Quarry 2 times Chuvalo 2 times Spinks 2 times but Foreman had to fight 5 more fights trying to get Ali to fight him again.Douglas beat Tyson but do you think he could do it again?Louis was destroyed by Schmeling but Louis got a chance to show he was the better man.
But anyway as i said they could show other fighters from the 70's or they could show Ali getting beat instead of trying to make a fool out of Foreman all of the time.

Now I do see where you're coming from and I agree with you upon some views but Norton never beat Ali three times. Their 2nd and 3rd encouters were close but rightfully went Alis way. I've seen them and scored them myself more than once. In my opinion Norton DID NOT beat Ali more than once. However I know and acknowledge that there are other and valid opinions of these fights. Point being, it is not right to say as a fact Norton beat Ali three times.

And don't you think that is a little harsh to blame an up and rising young star for getting a little overconfident? He got hit by Cooper, he went down but he won that fight the next round and learnt his lesson.

Further I'd be very interessted in your scoring of the Shavers-Ali bout. Which rounds did you give to Earnie and based on what? Calling this fight a robbery is way over the top.

Btw. the Ali-Spinks bout got Fight of the year honours. Though there might have been better bouts this year that is an accomplishment most HW boxers can't achieve their whole career. I don't have to remind you that this fight wasn't totally onedimensional either?

Of course Ali should've retired way earlier. But a lot of other greats should've done that as well. I wish he had done so however I respect his dedication to this sport, his heart and his toughness enough for not calling him dumb. He was licensed to fight and sure he needed some money but through it all he was still competitive.

I consider Ali past his prime when he beat Foreman. Foreman lost that fight more than Ali winning it. However you have to give Ali credit for taking all these bodyshots, for withstanding all this pain and takeing his only chance to win. George expected to win this fight a lot easier and this might have been his biggest fault as he was not the kind of fighter who could easily adjust his gameplan. At this stage of his career he only had one gameplan anyways. Personally I believe that Foreman didn't even think of training for more than 6 rounds.

And yes, I've read as well that Ali was saying that he realized during the fight that George cut down the ring too effectivly and that he had no chance in running from him the whole fight. It was an incredibly hot night as well and Ali was already getting older. But right there he showed one of his biggest advantages: he adjusted his gameplan.

What I found kinda funny over the years is that lots of people keep talking about how clever the rope-a-dope tactic was. I never thought it was clever to let one of the biggest punchers ever hit you, guard up or not. It was his only chance though. And I can't think of a lot of other fighters who were able to take the amount of punishment Ali took before his chance came. The thing to admire about Ali that night is not his ring-intelligence or his boxing qualities but his determination, heart and thoughness.

Foreman thought of retirement after that fight and had a layoff for about 1 1/2 years. During that period Ali fought Chuck Wepner, Lyle, Joe Bugner and Joe Frazier. His bout against Coopman took place less than half a month after Foremans comeback win against Lyle in which George didn't look like his old self.

I think that Foreman was in the mix again when he beat Frazier. Until his loss to Young there was a 9 month time period in which a rematch was possible. During that period Ali fought Norton in a rubber match. Norton was just as deserving of that fight as Foreman might have been. After that Foreman had his chance. He "only" had to get rid of the same Jimmy Young that Ali hold to a UD. He couldn't. It was not Ali's fault that Young was exactly the kind of boxer to beat Foreman that night.

When George lost to Young he lost his place among the top contenders and retired again.

To sum it up there were only 9 months in which a Ali-Foreman rematch could've happened and during this period Ali fought Norton of whom he knew that he had his number. Though I believe that Foreman would've beaten Ali convincingly in a second fight it was his fault that the fight never happened. He should've beaten Young.

Muhammad Ali is one of the best three HWs of all time. This is sth. you hardly can take away from him. He was a gifted athlete and had a heart at least the size of his mouth. People might give him a little bit too much credit these days but than again it is hard to give a fighter like Ali too much credit.