How Did Tyson Fury succeed where Muhammad Ali failed?

[Willow The Wisp]

You know the background.....

Between 03-23-67 and 10-26-70, "The Greatest", Muhammad Ali was forced to temporarily retire from boxing and stood on the shelf for 3 years, 7 months and 3 days, or 1,313 days.
When he left he was the undisputed Heavyweight champion of the world and undefeated in 29 professional fights.

Fast forward to modern times, and while the particulars change, we have something similar occur.

Between 11-29-15 and 06-09-18, The Gypsy King", Tyson Fury was forced to temporarily retire from boxing and stood on the shelf for 2 years, 6 months, 11 days, or 923 days.
When he left he was the universally recognized and linial Heavyweight champion of the world and undefeated in 25 professional fights.

When at long last Ali was allowed to again ply his chosen trade, he returned to action and took on two of the best top 10 ranked contenders in the world in Jerry Quarry and Oscar Bonavena. One sided wins over two of the best fighters he'd ever fought instantly re established Ali as the 1st or 2nd best heavyweight on the planet during a great period in heavyweight history; and he was prepared to face the new dominant force on the scene, Joe Frazier, 26-0-0.
Ali was 29 years of age.


After seeking medical help for several serious emotional health ailments and miraculously getting himself back in condition, at long last Fury was declaired fit to fight again, he returned to action and took on two mediocre talents good enough only to assist Fury regain his timing, if not his fighting prowess. One sided wins in those tune-ups was enough, however, to re establish Fury as the 1st or 2nd or 3rd best heavyweight on the planet during yet another great period in heavyweight history; and he somehow was left feeling prepared to face the new dominant force on the scene, Deontay Wilder, 40-0-0.
Fury was 30.



Now Wilder and Frazier both receive criticism here and so too, do Ali and Fury for that matter; but anyone who knows enough about the fight game to have earned a discussion on the subject will readily admit that fighters too much better than those four are found only in the comic books and in Hong Kong choreography.

Enough said that both Ali and Fury were really going for it. Strait to the title - Most dangerious opponents that the mother earth could provide to them.

If there was a difference between their respective challenges, it was surly that Ali took out two top guns for his preparation. Fury went in just about cold.

And yet........

Ali got Dumped and lost a classic.
Fury got dumped twice, but he salvaged a draw by winning more rounds in another classic.
Both, of course would go on to beat their dance partners twice apiece later on, but it would never be easy. Seldom is easy when greats go head to head.

Both Frazier and Wilder would prove still dominant among their peers for a while longer.
Both Ali and Fury would go on to dominance in their respective eras as champions, but for their BIG title reclamation comback nights, how was Fury able to do better than "The Greatest", if only slightly? And with so much less real good opponent/real fight preparation?

It's to ponder when determining what greatness is.

[Ivich]

You know the background.....

Between 03-23-67 and 10-26-70, "The Greatest", Muhammad Ali was forced to temporarily retire from boxing and stood on the shelf for 3 years, 7 months and 3 days, or 1,313 days.
When he left he was the undisputed Heavyweight champion of the world and undefeated in 29 professional fights.

Fast forward to modern times, and while the particulars change, we have something similar occur.

Between 11-29-15 and 06-09-18, The Gypsy King", Tyson Fury was forced to temporarily retire from boxing and stood on the shelf for 2 years, 6 months, 11 days, or 923 days.
When he left he was the universally recognized and linial Heavyweight champion of the world and undefeated in 25 professional fights.

When at long last Ali was allowed to again ply his chosen trade, he returned to action and took on two of the best top 10 ranked contenders in the world in Jerry Quarry and Oscar Bonavena. One sided wins over two of the best fighters he'd ever fought instantly re established Ali as the 1st or 2nd best heavyweight on the planet during a great period in heavyweight history; and he was prepared to face the new dominant force on the scene, Joe Frazier, 26-0-0.
Ali was 29 years of age.


After seeking medical help for several serious emotional health ailments and miraculously getting himself back in condition, at long last Fury was declaired fit to fight again, he returned to action and took on two mediocre talents good enough only to assist Fury regain his timing, if not his fighting prowess. One sided wins in those tune-ups was enough, however, to re establish Fury as the 1st or 2nd or 3rd best heavyweight on the planet during yet another great period in heavyweight history; and he somehow was left feeling prepared to face the new dominant force on the scene, Deontay Wilder, 40-0-0.
Fury was 30.



Now Wilder and Frazier both receive criticism here and so too, do Ali and Fury for that matter; but anyone who knows enough about the fight game to have earned a discussion on the subject will readily admit that fighters too much better than those four are found only in the comic books and in Hong Kong choreography.

Enough said that both Ali and Fury were really going for it. Strait to the title - Most dangerious opponents that the mother earth could provide to them.

If there was a difference between their respective challenges, it was surly that Ali took out two top guns for his preparation. Fury went in just about cold.

And yet........

Ali got Dumped and lost a classic.
Fury got dumped twice, but he salvaged a draw by winning more rounds in another classic.
Both, of course would go on to beat their dance partners twice apiece later on, but it would never be easy. Seldom is easy when greats go head to head.

Both Frazier and Wilder would prove still dominant among their peers for a while longer.
Both Ali and Fury would go on to dominance in their respective eras as champions, but for their BIG title reclamation comback nights, how was Fury able to do better than "The Greatest", if only slightly? And with so much less real good opponent/real fight preparation?

It's to ponder when determining what greatness is.

Frazier was a great fighter and Wilder isn't?

[QueensburyRules]

You know the background.....

- - The background is Ali stood up for his and other young men's rights against the full force of the US Federal Government, took a huge financial hit, but ultimately won that fight that in turn won him the hearts and mind of majority America who previously looked askance at his career.

Conflating Flubber who spit his dummy as he melted like a spilt snowcone on a summer sidewalk would be farcical if it weren't Flubber at his most asinine.

[GhostofDempsey]

Ali fought better opposition. Frazier is > Wilder all day, every day. Wilder was exposed as a one-trick pony, a big right hand and not much else. Frazier was a more nuanced fighter.

[Willow The Wisp]

Frazier was a great fighter and Wilder isn't?

I dunno man, I've read Frazier was next to Nothing here lately. As for the murderious punching Wilder, You are dead wrong about that, but I knew that was coming, lol. I'm looking forward to what Wilder does next. Fury can get over on him but has to keep getting up off the ground to do it. The recent vintage Other than that? Lewis and Wladimir would get hit harder than they ever have been hit almost certainly; and for all their laudable attributes and accomplishments, they wouldn't like it one bit. Bowe would outbox Wilder, taste that power and quit like he did in the Marines. Holyfield had great heart but only a good chin, which would place him on the train tracks like never before; and Joshua would get laid out flat, too chinny; and Usyk? Jury's still out on him. Waiting to see what he's made of beyond Chazz & Chisora level, Cruiserweights and and having Joshua's number, which every other opponent Joshua faces these days has. Frazier and Wilder share the distinction of being second best of their era by only a wisper.

[Ivich]

I dunno man, I've read Frazier was next to Nothing here lately. As for the murderious punching Wilder, You are dead wrong about that, but I knew that was coming, lol. I'm looking forward to what Wilder does next. Fury can get over on him but has to keep getting up off the ground to do it. The recent vintage Other than that? Lewis and Wladimir would get hit harder than they ever have been hit almost certainly; and for all their laudable attributes and accomplishments, they wouldn't like it one bit. Bowe would outbox Wilder, taste that power and quit like he did in the Marines. Holyfield had great heart but only a good chin, which would place him on the train tracks like never before; and Joshua would get laid out flat, too chinny; and Usyk? Jury's still out on him. Waiting to see what he's made of beyond Chazz & Chisora level, Cruiserweights and and having Joshua's number, which every other opponent Joshua faces these days has. Frazier and Wilder share the distinction of being second best of their era by only a wisper.

It's amusing you concentrate on how good a chin proposed opponents of Wilder have.
Wilder has been stopped twice by Fury ,never a particularly big puncher.How would he react to getting hit by Wlad and Lennox?

Bowe ever quit as a pro?
I'd pick Frank Sanchez to beat Wilder.

[Willow The Wisp]

It's amusing you concentrate on how good a chin proposed opponents of Wilder have.
Wilder has been stopped twice by Fury ,never a particularly big puncher.How would he react to getting hit by Wlad and Lennox?

Bowe ever quit as a pro?
I'd pick Frank Sanchez to beat Wilder.

Well, we've disagreed before. If I recall, I'm not the first either. That's the fun of it. But here, very unlike fantasy fights, who's over rated or under rated and whether or not a Hall of Fame is nessisary; we're going to get to see Wilder push on with his quest to overtake George Foreman as the hardest hitting human to ever walk the earth. This disagreement will have a clear winner and we'll get to see it. So eat your Wheatabix and stay healthy.

[Ivich]

Well, we've disagreed before. If I recall, I'm not the first either. That's the fun of it. But here, very unlike fantasy fights, who's over rated or under rated and whether or not a Hall of Fame is nessisary; we're going to get to see Wilder push on with his quest to overtake George Foreman as the hardest hitting human to ever walk the earth. This disagreement will have a clear winner and we'll get to see it. So eat your Wheatabix and stay healthy.

Is it only me you have disagreed with?

Wilder the hardest hitting?

Certainly one of them,but does he hit any harder than Efe Ajagba, for example?
I've sourdough, mixed grain toast for breakfast with butter and marmite on top.
Healthy? I've been laid up for a week with a stinking cold and sore throat.
Ventured out today to pick up one of the grandson's from school,and am hopeful alcohol may be on Saturday's menu,we shall see.

[Silence]

Wilder murders Frazier the midget with his little finger.

[Ivich]

Wilder murders Frazier the midget with his little finger.

I have a hunch Wilder will not do well against much shorter,crouchers.
I think he shines against tall static guys like Breazeale,and Helenius.

Not saying he necessarily loses ,but having zero inside game,and being essentially a long puncher,and not a particularly accurate one, Frazier may have some success,we saw Wilder badly hurt by Fury's body shots,if he can slip that right hand, what else does Wilder have to offer?