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Was Bill Richmond actually bad for black boxing?

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    Was Bill Richmond actually bad for black boxing?

    Firstly, I've been waiting on this thread to do some more direct research. I was reading about one and memory of others came in and wanted to get my **** straight before I make a thread but only ever remember to do it after I'm done here. So, atm, this is the basics and more a reminder to get **** right than a complete thread. WIP.


    He is the first black man to make a stir. Sometimes called the first black man in boxing but Georges and Lashley have him by a few generations.

    Richmond is more famous for his training input than his attempts in the ring, though those are respected as well.

    He was Molyneaux's head trainer, he trained Sutton, Robinson, and Smith as well. Along with the white Jack Carter.

    When you read about Moly the blame for Moly coming in out of shape is given to Moly, however, Molyneaux himself would claim it was Richmond's unfair treatment that caused his inability to take training seriously.

    I think there's some credit to that. Moly is one case and Richmond does come off as the more level headed man, but, he did send Molyneaux to a fight that generated more than 180 pounds and paid Moly just enough to afford the coach home.

    Then after they fell out Richmond picked up Carter and Sutton. Both of which quit working with Richmond over the same thing and went on tour exhibiting with one another.

    All his wards end up in some manner in the same boat. Yes, he got them bigger fights than they would have, but then he Don King'd them and having to struggle to get home would take up a man's training time a bit unfairly. He lost trainees to Tom Oliver as well

    #2
    Originally posted by Marchegiano View Post
    Firstly, I've been waiting on this thread to do some more direct research. I was reading about one and memory of others came in and wanted to get my **** straight before I make a thread but only ever remember to do it after I'm done here. So, atm, this is the basics and more a reminder to get **** right than a complete thread. WIP.


    He is the first black man to make a stir. Sometimes called the first black man in boxing but Georges and Lashley have him by a few generations.

    Richmond is more famous for his training input than his attempts in the ring, though those are respected as well.

    He was Molyneaux's head trainer, he trained Sutton, Robinson, and Smith as well. Along with the white Jack Carter.

    When you read about Moly the blame for Moly coming in out of shape is given to Moly, however, Molyneaux himself would claim it was Richmond's unfair treatment that caused his inability to take training seriously.

    I think there's some credit to that. Moly is one case and Richmond does come off as the more level headed man, but, he did send Molyneaux to a fight that generated more than 180 pounds and paid Moly just enough to afford the coach home.

    Then after they fell out Richmond picked up Carter and Sutton. Both of which quit working with Richmond over the same thing and went on tour exhibiting with one another.

    All his wards end up in some manner in the same boat. Yes, he got them bigger fights than they would have, but then he Don King'd them and having to struggle to get home would take up a man's training time a bit unfairly. He lost trainees to Tom Oliver as well
    Why do some call him the first?

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by markusmod View Post

      Why do some call him the first?
      Well, ****, like I said in the OP atm this thread is mostly a reminder to myself to get my books out and get the story straight. So, this is off the cuff about something I only have a weak recollection of and will sound like it.

      The first black man in was Joseph Bologne, Chevalier de Saint-Georges. He was being racially abused by an English Dragoon while tending horses for the English, got challenged to a sword fight, he won, then the Dragoon, whose name I forget, challenged him to English boxing, he won and that was that. Thing is, obviously, this is an impromptu duel from an era when boxing as a sport doesn't exist in France. This abouts the late 1700s

      Next is African Joe Lashley who fought the brother of a then famous boxer. I think he killed the guy and quit boxing entirely.

      Bill Richmond is the first black boxer trained for the sport, had a career instead of a fight or two, and retired officially.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Marchegiano View Post

        Well, ****, like I said in the OP atm this thread is mostly a reminder to myself to get my books out and get the story straight. So, this is off the cuff about something I only have a weak recollection of and will sound like it.

        The first black man in was Joseph Bologne, Chevalier de Saint-Georges. He was being racially abused by an English Dragoon while tending horses for the English, got challenged to a sword fight, he won, then the Dragoon, whose name I forget, challenged him to English boxing, he won and that was that. Thing is, obviously, this is an impromptu duel from an era when boxing as a sport doesn't exist in France. This abouts the late 1700s

        Next is African Joe Lashley who fought the brother of a then famous boxer. I think he killed the guy and quit boxing entirely.

        Bill Richmond is the first black boxer trained for the sport, had a career instead of a fight or two, and retired officially.
        This is really interesting.


        I don't know why, but the question popped into my head: Was African Joe Lashley actually African. lol. Probably not. He was over in England, correct?

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by travestyny View Post

          This is really interesting.


          I don't know why, but the question popped into my head: Was African Joe Lashley actually African. lol. Probably not. He was over in England, correct?
          As far as I know there's only his fights on record, no real bio stuff so no one knows. There might be another one before the Treadway fight, but, i'm pretty sure the dude is only known by one or two fights and that's it.

          Yes, England, very early 1800s maybe the very end of the 1700s. It's a safe bet to assume the African bit is a racial moniker like Molyneaux and Richmond being Moors. I could be wrong, but I reckon I wouldn't be terribly shocked if he was African but I would be a bit surprised if the English knew he was African.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Marchegiano View Post

            As far as I know there's only his fights on record, no real bio stuff so no one knows. There might be another one before the Treadway fight, but, i'm pretty sure the dude is only known by one or two fights and that's it.

            Yes, England, very early 1800s maybe the very end of the 1700s. It's a safe bet to assume the African bit is a racial moniker like Molyneaux and Richmond being Moors. I could be wrong, but I reckon I wouldn't be terribly shocked if he was African but I would be a bit surprised if the English knew he was African.
            hahaha. Yea, that's what I thought. Like Lil Arthur was "The Ethiopian."

            Comment


              #7
              - -Dumbo thread lacking any historical merit. Richmond had gravitas and respect whereas Molineaux hadn't the brains to sustain a career much less a long life, dying in abject wastrel alcoholism...R.I.P...

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by travestyny View Post

                This is really interesting.


                I don't know why, but the question popped into my head: Was African Joe Lashley actually African. lol. Probably not. He was over in England, correct?
                Any relation to Bobby Lashley?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Anthony342 View Post

                  Any relation to Bobby Lashley?
                  The WWE champion?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Anthony342 View Post

                    Any relation to Bobby Lashley?
                    lol. When I looked him up, I wondered about that myself. They did say the dude was pretty muscular with huge shoulders :P


                    By the way, I was wondering if, as a Wrestling fan, have you ever heard of Doc Krone. Apparently he was the top wrestling promoter in Chicago in the 1920's - 30's.

                    Comment

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