Muhammed Ali And Joe Louis: Who's The Greatest Heavyweight?

[winky44]

Whatever.

Poet

right.........Just really disagreed with that post you made. very unaccurate

[StarshipTrooper]

right.........Just really disagreed with that post you made. very unaccurate

Whatever. Go troll elsewhere.

Poet

[Kid McCoy]

I love em both, great resumes. LEGENDS!

But I defy any one to watch the peak Louis face Tommy Farr and then Billy Conn 1. Then watch the You tube videos of Ali vs Williams, Terrell and Folley.

I'll be very much suprised if anyone truely believes Ali wouldn't beat Joe. Ali was Joe's stylistic nightmare and was better in every department than Farr and Conn!

That's not a fair comparison. Billy Conn was a prime Hall of Famer who had beaten several top heavies to get his shot at Louis. Imo, he'd also give Ali plenty to think about. Williams and Folley were not even prime, let alone Hall of Famers. I could just as easily point to Ali's fight with Mildenberger and Louis' rematch with Schmeling for the opposite viewpoint.

Terrell was prime with a tricky style and Ali did beat him pretty handily, but I don't see how that translates to Ali beating Louis.

Tommy Farr was an excellent fighter with a rock chin who beat Baer, Burman and (to the eyes of many) Braddock too. No one beat him easily at his best.

[winky44]

Whatever. Go troll elsewhere.

Poet

am not a troll. it was just you made a bad post and i told you you made a bad post.

[StarshipTrooper]

am not a troll. it was just you made a bad post and i told you you made a bad post.

And you have made your last post in my thread.

Poet

[TheGreatA]

That's not a fair comparison. Billy Conn was a prime Hall of Famer who had beaten several top heavies to get his shot at Louis. Imo, he'd also give Ali plenty to think about. Williams and Folley were not even prime, let alone Hall of Famers. I could just as easily point to Ali's fight with Mildenberger and Louis' rematch with Schmeling for the opposite viewpoint.

Terrell was prime with a tricky style and Ali did beat him pretty handily, but I don't see how that translates to Ali beating Louis.

Tommy Farr was an excellent fighter with a rock chin who beat Baer, Burman and (to the eyes of many) Braddock too. No one beat him easily at his best.

I think Conn and Farr also posed different stylistical match-ups for Louis than Ali would.

Conn of course used movement to frustrate Louis but he was also beating him on the inside with quick combinations. In the end he got carried away with it and left himself open for counter punches.

Farr was simply a cagey, durable veteran who could trouble anybody.

Bob Pastor in the first fight practically ran away from Louis and did well enough to survive the distance. In a rematch Louis nearly knocked him out in rounds 1 & 2 until Pastor made a great rally in the middle rounds. Louis patiently waited for his opportunity and caught Pastor with one of the quickest and most powerful right hands that I've ever seen as Pastor was moving to his left.



Walcott used similar tactics to frustrate an older Louis. He had tricky movement but only a moment of over-confidence cost him in their second fight.

Ali would be a tough match-up for Louis indeed but I can't count Louis out in any match-up. He had an amazing ability to solve all kinds of styles and end up victorious.

[Kid McCoy]

Ali would be a tough match-up for Louis indeed but I can't count Louis out in any match-up. He had an amazing ability to solve all kinds of styles and end up victorious.

I agree. I've changed my views on this fight numerous times, but at the moment I actually favour Ali to win a decision. I just think some are seriously underestimating Joe by picking Ali to win easily.

[StarshipTrooper]

And you have made your last post in my thread.

Poet

I now fully expect to be hit with red K and have a new thread made about me in the Thunderdome

Poet

[Sugarj]

Kid McCoy said:

'That's not a fair comparison. Billy Conn was a prime Hall of Famer who had beaten several top heavies to get his shot at Louis. Imo, he'd also give Ali plenty to think about. Williams and Folley were not even prime, let alone Hall of Famers. I could just as easily point to Ali's fight with Mildenberger and Louis' rematch with Schmeling for the opposite viewpoint.

Terrell was prime with a tricky style and Ali did beat him pretty handily, but I don't see how that translates to Ali beating Louis.

Tommy Farr was an excellent fighter with a rock chin who beat Baer, Burman and (to the eyes of many) Braddock too. No one beat him easily at his best.'


Hi McCoy, my comparison was based entirely on styles. Farr and Conn were good fighters who used movement, fast footwork (at least in Conn's case!) a solid left jab and combinations to give a peak Louis two serious scares. The Ali examples that I used demonstrates a guy (at his peak) who is bigger, every bit as good at combination punching, more mobile, faster of hands and feet, with a longer reach, a more solid chin and more of an ability to slip punches than either of those two. It is based on these performances that I feel that Louis almost certainly loses to a peak Ali. The style beats Louis and Ali almost certainly would have pulled it off much better than Farr and Conn.

As for Mildenberger, thats a bad choice........Louis was never a southpaw! Ali knocked him down a few times from memory and stopped him I think in the twelth. Mildenberger gave him a few problems but didn't win many rounds and certainly didn't hurt Ali.

As for Schmelling 2, watch Max. He was like a scared Rabbit, no comparison to the guy who fought Louis in 36! He threw only one punch the whole first round (a right hand). I'll never forget Ali in the famous documentary 'AKA Cassius Clay' analysing this fight, he was rightly scathing of Schmelling. How poor Max is at attempting survival is untrue. No circiling, no clinching or pushing, no punches to at least try and keep Joe off. Its not like Louis was fighting like a man possessed (nothing like Dempsey vs Willard or Tyson vs Spinks!). Schmelling had chances to make more of the fight, the pace wasn't blindingly frenetic.

[TheGreatA]

Kid McCoy said:

'That's not a fair comparison. Billy Conn was a prime Hall of Famer who had beaten several top heavies to get his shot at Louis. Imo, he'd also give Ali plenty to think about. Williams and Folley were not even prime, let alone Hall of Famers. I could just as easily point to Ali's fight with Mildenberger and Louis' rematch with Schmeling for the opposite viewpoint.

Terrell was prime with a tricky style and Ali did beat him pretty handily, but I don't see how that translates to Ali beating Louis.

Tommy Farr was an excellent fighter with a rock chin who beat Baer, Burman and (to the eyes of many) Braddock too. No one beat him easily at his best.'


Hi McCoy, my comparison was based entirely on styles. Farr and Conn were good fighters who used movement, fast footwork (at least in Conn's case!) a solid left jab and combinations to give a peak Louis two serious scares. The Ali examples that I used demonstrates a guy (at his peak) who is bigger, every bit as good at combination punching, more mobile, faster of hands and feet, with a longer reach, a more solid chin and more of an ability to slip punches than either of those two. It is based on these performances that I feel that Louis almost certainly loses to a peak Ali. The style beats Louis and Ali almost certainly would have pulled it off much better than Farr and Conn.

As for Mildenberger, thats a bad choice........Louis was never a southpaw! Ali knocked him down a few times from memory and stopped him I think in the twelth. Mildenberger gave him a few problems but didn't win many rounds and certainly didn't hurt Ali.

As for Schmelling 2, watch Max. He was like a scared Rabbit, no comparison to the guy who fought Louis in 36! He threw only one punch the whole first round (a right hand). I'll never forget Ali in the famous documentary 'AKA Cassius Clay' analysing this fight, he was rightly scathing of Schmelling. How poor Max is at attempting survival is untrue. No circiling, no clinching or pushing, no punches to at least try and keep Joe off. Its not like Louis was fighting like a man possessed (nothing like Dempsey vs Willard or Tyson vs Spinks!). Schmelling had chances to make more of the fight, the pace wasn't blindingly frenetic.

I'm quite certain that one of Louis' body punches broke Schmeling's vertebrae, leaving him completely immobilized and a punching bag for the rest of the fight.

People tend to underrate Louis' body punching. Louis said the first thing he would do against Ali was try to corner him against the ropes, go to the body and try to catch him as he was trying to circle away from Louis.