rocky marciano vs bernard hopkins

[Terry A]

lol SlickSouthpaw16. If Them Apples is the only person in this thread with a brain you can keep him.

Slicksouthpaw16 and Them_Apples have made many, many good contributions since I've been a member here. I'll vouch that they both have boxing brains.

As for this fantasy match, the only way that Hopkins beats the Rock is if he can outbox him for the whole time the fight is scheduled for. No way he knocks out the Rock. And I just can't see Hopkins having enough firepower to hold off Rocky. Personally, I would have bet all my money that Archie Moore and / or Ezzard Charles beats Hopkins at 175, prime for prime at 175. So, no, I can't envision Hopkins outboxing Marciano the whole night.

I'm going out on a redwood and picking Marciano by decision or late KO. Hopkins is most certainly savy enough to hang around a while. But them punches will accumulate fast.

[TheGreatA]

You have to take into consideration that Walcott didn't get the decision in the first fight because of his conservative tactics against the beloved Champion. Obviously he was looking to make more of a point by showboating more, still I don't think that cost him the fight. You also have to admit Louis set a pretty good trap for those sneaky rights that broke Walcott down and was willing to take a good left to land them in both instances. I find it really hard to knock Walcott for this because you give Louis enough rounds against anybody he'll figure you out and land something. Seriously Hopkins never fought someone with the boxing brain of Joe Louis.


lol SlickSouthpaw16. If Them Apples is the only person in this thread with a brain you can keep him.

In my opinion it did. There was absolutely no reason at all for Walcott to dance and showboat against Joe Louis who was the greatest finisher of all time.

Sure he may have been caught at some point even if he had not done what he did but I believe he wouldn't have been at that time if not for his blatant over-confidence.

For me it's the equivalent of Nate Campbell dropping his hands against Robbie Peden and getting knocked out. Just a plain dumb move if you ask me, not that I do not think highly of Walcott.



Louis did a fine job with his counter right hand throughout the bout but Walcott was asking for trouble with his showboating.

[Thunder Lips]

In my opinion it did. There was absolutely no reason at all for Walcott to dance and showboat against Joe Louis who was the greatest finisher of all time.

Sure he may have been caught at some point even if he had not done what he did but I believe he wouldn't have been at that time if not for his blatant over-confidence.

For me it's the equivalent of Nate Campbell dropping his hands against Robbie Peden and getting knocked out. Just a plain dumb move if you ask me, not that I do not think highly of Walcott.

Spending the last rounds of the first fight on his bicycle got him a SD loss. In retrospect he should have been even more cautious in the rematch but its easy to see why he may have thought the opposite. Walcott didn't exactly pull a Cambpell as he at least got caught by sneaky counter punch over the jab, that analogy is a bit harsh. Ouch. I'm not trying to be apologetic but I think it was an understandable miscalculation all things considered; a far cry from one of the dumber moments in the sport. To go back on topic, Hopkins has done just as much showboating against Pavlik and Tarver. Both were considered dangerous punchers coming into their respective fights but I just don't think they had a Joe Louis in them moreso than Hopkins being a smarter boxer.

[TheGreatA]

Spending the last rounds of the first fight on his bicycle got him a SD loss. In retrospect he should have been even more cautious in the rematch but its easy to see why he may have thought the opposite. Walcott didn't exactly pull a Cambpell as he at least got caught by sneaky counter punch over the jab, that analogy is a bit harsh. Ouch. I'm not trying to be apologetic but I think it was an understandable miscalculation all things considered; a far cry from one of the dumber moments in the sport. To go back on topic, Hopkins has done just as much showboating against Pavlik and Tarver. Both were considered dangerous punchers coming into their respective fights but I just don't think they had a Joe Louis in them moreso than Hopkins being a smarter boxer.

Comparing it to what Campbell did against Peden is a bit over the top but you could say that Peden was thought to be a relatively light puncher while Louis was known as perhaps the greatest puncher of all time who could get any man out of there with one well-landed punch on the chin.

As far as I know, no one else ever tried to showboat against Louis other than Walcott. It's just not a very smart thing to do.

We saw very little of the Walcott waltz in Jersey Joe's other title tries and for a very good reason.

I doubt Hopkins would ever showboat against a heavyweight (atleast a dangerous heavyweight, not a John Ruiz or a Nikolai Valuev). Then again he would never fight one either.

[Thunder Lips]

Comparing it to what Campbell did against Peden is a bit over the top but you could say that Peden was thought to be a relatively light puncher while Louis was known as perhaps the greatest puncher of all time who could get any man out of there with one well-landed punch on the chin.

As far as I know, no one else ever tried to showboat against Louis other than Walcott. It's just not a very smart thing to do.

I doubt Hopkins would ever showboat against a heavyweight (atleast a dangerous heavyweight, not a John Ruiz or a Nikolai Valuev). Then again he would never fight one either.

Off the top of my head one of Joe's tougher opponents Godoy did quite a bit of showboating in his first fight with Louis; moreso than Walcott ever did. Different breed of fighter though and he got his in the rematch as well.

Can't say if Hopkins would showboat against a Heavyweight or not. He certainly had no problem doing it againt fighters with threatening power at other weight classes so I don't see it as a huge stretch. I haven't seen anything to suggest he wouldn't. Hopkins and Walcott both liked to showboat and taunt in various situations, just who they were and I don't see a huge difference in judgement just opponents.

If say Pavlik ****** up Hopkins late flurries and came up with a huge knockout punch we would certainly be spinning a different tune right now. I just don't see this is a fair measuring stick of ring smarts. ****, they were both just crafty fighters and I can't see a strong case being made either way in this category.

Still, Walcott got caught over the top while he was throwing a purposeful jab...after some flashy footwork but still.

[TheGreatA]

Off the top of my head one of Joe's tougher opponents Godoy did quite a bit of showboating in his first fight with Louis; moreso than Walcott ever did. Different breed of fighter though and he got his in the rematch as well.

Can't say if Hopkins would showboat against a Heavyweight or not. He certainly had no problem doing it againt fighters with threatening power at other weight classes so I don't see it as a huge stretch. I haven't seen anything to suggest he wouldn't.

If say Pavlik ****** up Hopkins late flurries and came up with a huge knockout punch we would certainly be spinning a different tune right now. I just don't see this is a fair measuring stick of ring smarts. ****, they were both just crafty fighters and I can't see a strong case being made either way in this category.

I wouldn't call what Godoy did against Louis showboating since it was his style to crouch down as low as possible which made him an awkward target to hit but which also led to him getting destroyed by combinations of uppercuts in the rematch.

I'm not questioning Walcott's ring intelligence nor am I saying that Hopkins would be above such antics but I firmly believe that Walcott's 11th round waltz was one of the worst mistakes ever made in boxing. Not that it equals Campbell-Peden in ******ity but the stakes were much higher since it was for THE world heavyweight title.

Even Walcott himself admitted after the fight that he got over-confident against a puncher like Joe Louis who could very quickly capitalize on such a mistake.

[Thunder Lips]

"I'm not questioning Walcott's ring intelligence nor am I saying that Hopkins would be above such antics but I firmly believe that Walcott's 11th round waltz was one of the worst mistakes ever made in boxing. Not that it equals Campbell-Peden in ******ity but the stakes were much higher as it was for THE world heavyweight title.

Even Walcott himself admitted after the fight that he got over-confident against a puncher like Joe Louis who could very quickly capitalize on such a mistake."

Thank you for seeing that.

Your entitled to your opinion on Walcott/Louis I; I can think of worst offenses but in retrospect it is indeed avery bad moment for Walcott and there is no getting around that.

[Thunder Lips]

"Slicksouthpaw16 and Them_Apples have made many, many good contributions since I've been a member here. I'll vouch that they both have boxing brains."

In regards to their favorite fighters yes but they aren't the most opened minded bunch concerning anyone else, I guess we can all be a little biased but eh.....

"As for this fantasy match, the only way that Hopkins beats the Rock is if he can outbox him for the whole time the fight is scheduled for. No way he knocks out the Rock. And I just can't see Hopkins having enough firepower to hold off Rocky. Personally, I would have bet all my money that Archie Moore and / or Ezzard Charles beats Hopkins at 175, prime for prime at 175. So, no, I can't envision Hopkins outboxing Marciano the whole night."

I agree completely.