10 best at 168

[JAB5239]

This was posted by a friend of mine at another site. do you agree or disagree?


The Super Mid division, hasn't been around long yet has shown some very good fighters......The Top 10 best ever, in opinion.....



#1



One can't deny Joe Calzaghe's numbers......some 20 defenses of the WBO Super Mid Title and without a defeat, at the weight.....



#2



I wouldn't debate Roy Jones, being at #1 however, he moved up after dominating the opposition...Win over Toney, was very impressive....



#3



Sven Ottke, was never defeated in a fight...he was a light puncher and wasn't well know yet all he did, was win. A fight vs Calzaghe or Jones, would have been interesting.....



#4.



James Toney, surprised many on his fight with Iran Barkley and how he had no trouble with him...he defended well and was PFP one of the best at the time he was Champ....



#5



Arch rival of Nigel Benn, Chris Eubank made 14 defenses of a marginal Title, at 168......



#6

Chong Pal Park

Park was Champ at both the IBF and WBA Titles, making 8 defenses of the WBA portion....



#7



Benn made 8 defenses of the Title and in some fights, he showed he wasn't just a puncher as many

have stated.....



#8



Frank Liles, qualifies by his numbers. He made numerous defenses and was a regular on Showtime....



#9



Michael Nunn, was no where near to what he was at 160 yet he still won the Title at 168 and made 4 defenses....



#10

Lindell Holmes

Holmes, won the Title over Frank Tate and made 3 defenses....he also went a tough 15 in Korea, with Park.

[1SILVA]

Best At 168

This was posted by a friend of mine at another site. do you agree or disagree?


The Super Mid division, hasn't been around long yet has shown some very good fighters......The Top 10 best ever, in opinion.....



#1



One can't deny Joe Calzaghe's numbers......some 20 defenses of the WBO Super Mid Title and without a defeat, at the weight.....



#2



I wouldn't debate Roy Jones, being at #1 however, he moved up after dominating the opposition...Win over Toney, was very impressive....



#3



Sven Ottke, was never defeated in a fight...he was a light puncher and wasn't well know yet all he did, was win. A fight vs Calzaghe or Jones, would have been interesting.....



#4.



James Toney, surprised many on his fight with Iran Barkley and how he had no trouble with him...he defended well and was PFP one of the best at the time he was Champ....



#5



Arch rival of Nigel Benn, Chris Eubank made 14 defenses of a marginal Title, at 168......



#6

Chong Pal Park

Park was Champ at both the IBF and WBA Titles, making 8 defenses of the WBA portion....



#7



Benn made 8 defenses of the Title and in some fights, he showed he wasn't just a puncher as many

have stated.....



#8



Frank Liles, qualifies by his numbers. He made numerous defenses and was a regular on Showtime....



#9



Michael Nunn, was no where near to what he was at 160 yet he still won the Title at 168 and made 4 defenses....



#10

Lindell Holmes

Holmes, won the Title over Frank Tate and made 3 defenses....he also went a tough 15 in Korea, with Park.

I agree with this list 100 percent. Calzaghe, Jones, Ottke and Toney were no doubt the four best ever at 168

[phallus]

This was posted by a friend of mine at another site. do you agree or disagree?


The Super Mid division, hasn't been around long yet has shown some very good fighters......The Top 10 best ever, in opinion.....



#1



One can't deny Joe Calzaghe's numbers......some 20 defenses of the WBO Super Mid Title and without a defeat, at the weight.....



#2



I wouldn't debate Roy Jones, being at #1 however, he moved up after dominating the opposition...Win over Toney, was very impressive....



#3



Sven Ottke, was never defeated in a fight...he was a light puncher and wasn't well know yet all he did, was win. A fight vs Calzaghe or Jones, would have been interesting.....



#4.



James Toney, surprised many on his fight with Iran Barkley and how he had no trouble with him...he defended well and was PFP one of the best at the time he was Champ....



#5



Arch rival of Nigel Benn, Chris Eubank made 14 defenses of a marginal Title, at 168......



#6

Chong Pal Park

Park was Champ at both the IBF and WBA Titles, making 8 defenses of the WBA portion....



#7



Benn made 8 defenses of the Title and in some fights, he showed he wasn't just a puncher as many

have stated.....



#8



Frank Liles, qualifies by his numbers. He made numerous defenses and was a regular on Showtime....



#9



Michael Nunn, was no where near to what he was at 160 yet he still won the Title at 168 and made 4 defenses....



#10

Lindell Holmes

Holmes, won the Title over Frank Tate and made 3 defenses....he also went a tough 15 in Korea, with Park.

disagree, ottke needed gift decisions to win most of his fights, get his name out of there and move toney up to #3. RJJ should be #1- jones was never beaten at 168, calz #2, the rest of the list is ok

[Steak]

not too bad a list, but I would drop Ottke down a lot. honestly, if the guy didnt get gift decisions, he would have made very few successful title defences. hell, he might not have even won the title, because Ive heard his fights with Brewer were quite controversial. I cant say for sure who he got gifts against and who he actually beat...I surely havent seen his entire career...but pretty much every non-bum he fought, its widely believed he lost to. I mean, think about it. from what Ive read, the guy was robbed against Brewer, Glen Johnson, Thomas Tate, Byron Mitchell, and Robin Reid.


take away his 'wins' where he got gifts, and hes really no better(maybe worse) than someone like Byron Mitchell or Robin Reid...who at their best werent too bad of fighters, but still clearly 2nd tier.

I think its very unfair to not put Steve Collins anywhere on the list. he might have beaten shells of Eubank and Benn, but he did beat them along with other decent competition. I might have it something like this, without doing too much research.

1. Joe Calzaghe
2. Roy Jones
3. James Toney
4. Benn- I know Eubank knocked him out, but that was at 160, and I actually thought Benn beat him in the rematch. plus, his win over McClellan was huge, crooked ref or not. but this is debatable.
5. Eubank
6. Chong Pal Park
7. Steve Collins
8. Frank Liles
9. Michael Nunn
10. Lindell Holmes

I dunno, something like that. I feel like Im forgetting someone(not Ottke) important.

[phallus]

not too bad a list, but I would drop Ottke down a lot. honestly, if the guy didnt get gift decisions, he would have made very few successful title defences. hell, he might not have even won the title, because Ive heard his fights with Brewer were quite controversial. I cant say for sure who he got gifts against and who he actually beat...I surely havent seen his entire career...but pretty much every non-bum he fought, its widely believed he lost to. I mean, think about it. from what Ive read, the guy was robbed against Brewer, Glen Johnson, Thomas Tate, Byron Mitchell, and Robin Reid.


take away his 'wins' where he got gifts, and hes really no better(maybe worse) than someone like Byron Mitchell or Robin Reid...who at their best werent too bad of fighters, but still clearly 2nd tier.

I think its very unfair to not put Steve Collins anywhere on the list. he might have beaten shells of Eubank and Benn, but he did beat them along with other decent competition. I might have it something like this, without doing too much research.

1. Joe Calzaghe
2. Roy Jones
3. James Toney
4. Benn- I know Eubank knocked him out, but that was at 160, and I actually thought Benn beat him in the rematch. plus, his win over McClellan was huge, crooked ref or not. but this is debatable.
5. Eubank
6. Chong Pal Park
7. Steve Collins
8. Frank Liles
9. Michael Nunn
10. Lindell Holmes

I dunno, something like that. I feel like Im forgetting someone(not Ottke) important.

i like you list better than the first one, i can see collins on there better than i can sven ottke - collins was a classy guy, after he beat benn he said " that wasn't the real nigel benn i fought ". ever seen ottke's fight with rob reid? reid won every f.ucking round and even knocked ottke down and ze ****sucker krauts gave the fight to ottke. robin reid should have been a 3 time world champ. benn in 4th place is a good idea also, he fought the best competition of any 168 lb champ and never lost to an american fighter.

[JAB5239]

not too bad a list, but I would drop Ottke down a lot. honestly, if the guy didnt get gift decisions, he would have made very few successful title defences. hell, he might not have even won the title, because Ive heard his fights with Brewer were quite controversial. I cant say for sure who he got gifts against and who he actually beat...I surely havent seen his entire career...but pretty much every non-bum he fought, its widely believed he lost to. I mean, think about it. from what Ive read, the guy was robbed against Brewer, Glen Johnson, Thomas Tate, Byron Mitchell, and Robin Reid.


take away his 'wins' where he got gifts, and hes really no better(maybe worse) than someone like Byron Mitchell or Robin Reid...who at their best werent too bad of fighters, but still clearly 2nd tier.

I think its very unfair to not put Steve Collins anywhere on the list. he might have beaten shells of Eubank and Benn, but he did beat them along with other decent competition. I might have it something like this, without doing too much research.

1. Joe Calzaghe
2. Roy Jones
3. James Toney
4. Benn- I know Eubank knocked him out, but that was at 160, and I actually thought Benn beat him in the rematch. plus, his win over McClellan was huge, crooked ref or not. but this is debatable.
5. Eubank
6. Chong Pal Park
7. Steve Collins
8. Frank Liles
9. Michael Nunn
10. Lindell Holmes

I dunno, something like that. I feel like Im forgetting someone(not Ottke) important.

I don't know enough about Ottke to comment on the legitimacy of his decisions, but I love the addition of Steve Collins.

When I first started boxing the Petronelli brothers called my trainer looking for sparring for a middleweight. They wanted someone bigger who could push a guy around. Any we go up their and low and behold they want me in the ring with Collins. I had only been fighting 4 or 5 months at the time and my trainer said no way. Thank god, he would have beat my ass.

He was cool as hell though. Worked with me on some things and was just a gentleman. After we left I told my trainer he should have let me get in the ring with him. In hindsight I realized he saved me a beating and possibly a confidence shattering experience.

[Steak]

I don't know enough about Ottke to comment on the legitimacy of his decisions, but I love the addition of Steve Collins.

When I first started boxing the Petronelli brothers called my trainer looking for sparring for a middleweight. They wanted someone bigger who could push a guy around. Any we go up their and low and behold they want me in the ring with Collins. I had only been fighting 4 or 5 months at the time and my trainer said no way. Thank god, he would have beat my ass.

He was cool as hell though. Worked with me on some things and was just a gentleman. After we left I told my trainer he should have let me get in the ring with him. In hindsight I realized he saved me a beating and possibly a confidence shattering experience.

haha yea, from what Ive seen of him Collins was one tough bastard, and he could crack too. very nice guy as well. even his fights were real fun to watch...how could you not like him?

replace those *** with easts ide and youll get youll learn more about Ottke's super middleweight run.

[Clegg]

The next injustice was added to Ottke’s record in his very next outing when he failed to land any meaningful shots on a game Glen Johnson. Johnson, on the other hand, was more productive and assertive. He cleanly outboxed Ottke and somehow ended up losing 115-113 on all three scorecards. Even Johnson himself says of the fight, “I won that fight hands down and they gave it to him.” Johnson is not really the type to cry wolf, and has often given Bernard Hopkins high-praise for beating him so soundly when the two met in the ring.

I have spoken to someone on here (Bat) who watched the fight and said it was not a robbery.

Ottke may not have been all that good, but the whole article seems very biased. For example Glenn Johnson DOES claim to have been robbed on several occassions, so that part of the article is BS.

I don't rate Ottke highly based upon his abilities, but on paper he has some solid wins and he unified, so I would definitley have him in the top 10.

I also disagree with the view that the ref was crooked in the Benn-McClellan fight. He was incompetent, but not crooked IMO.

[Steak]

I also disagree with the view that the ref was crooked in the Benn-McClellan fight. He was incompetent, but not crooked IMO.

maybe youre right, I cant read the guys mind. either way, he ****ed up bad. Benn is awesome...but he was ready to go, and the ref gave him way too much time to recoop. the fact that he got up after that first knockdown blows my mind. at least 95% of other refs would have waved it off then and there.

I really cant say anything about Glen vs. Ottke personally, Ive never even seen video of the fight on the net. But other than Bat saying it wasnt a robbery, most stuff Ive read pointed to a robbery. some guys had it 116-112 for Glen.

A local reporter, Andreas Lorenz, was so aghast at Johnson’s shabby treatment, he actually hand-delivered tapes to the Johnson camp. He felt that Johnson beat Ottke, but was robbed of the decision

[phallus]

maybe youre right, I cant read the guys mind. either way, he ****ed up bad. Benn is awesome...but he was ready to go, and the ref gave him way too much time to recoop. the fact that he got up after that first knockdown blows my mind. at least 95% of other refs would have waved it off then and there.

I really cant say anything about Glen vs. Ottke personally, Ive never even seen video of the fight on the net. But other than Bat saying it wasnt a robbery, most stuff Ive read pointed to a robbery. some guys had it 116-112 for Glen.

i've watched that fight many times, it's amazing benn gets up and shakes it off, because if you watch him go throught the ropes, he hit his head on the camera at ringside - that might be why the ref gave extra time, maybe he saw that too