Top 10 Heavies from best to worst

[QueensburyRules]

Explain how so many awful fighters managed to find his chin and deck him in his prime.

Houdini has done such a horrendous job of defending his idiotic statements on Louis in this thread, I would give even YOU of all people a better shot at making a case for the overrated champ.

- -Joe an offensive fighter like Robinson that made them fan favorites.

That leaves him more open to counters, hence the KDs.

Boxing 101. I can enroll U in my next semester.

[HOUDINI563]

Watch the videos. They totally crash your absurd fantasy opinion. Louis could box beautifully and counter with terrific power. No heavyweight threw combination like Louis and it’s not close. Watch Louis sidestep, parry, duck, block and counter. Beautiful defensive skills turned instantly into deadly offense.

Hey how about you posting all the videos on line that support your opinion? Hey if your so right and I’m so wrong you should find triple the information correct? Let’s see it.

[Bundana]

Regarding today’s generation looking at old films and coming to conclusions that’s pure crap. Very few know what they are looking at. There was a boxing writer who supposedly looked at old fight films and wrote a critique of Dempsey so off the mark it was over the top ridiculous. Just one load of pure unadulterated crap.

Ok, I get it... you're not willing to discuss the crap you read about Dempsey, based on the footage some writer had seen.

That's a pity, because then we could compare that crap, with the hyperbolic fanboy crap in this article:

[HOUDINI563]

Dempsey was and is an ATG. It’s only revisionists who do their best to distort the record that feel otherwise.

If you are talking Dempsey Wills this is another subject that has been discussed and concluded many decades ago. Dempsey was exonerated then and no new information has or will be found that changes this history. This, like Louis greatness technically, is not something that can be debated.

Watch the videos. Then post all the many videos I am sure are out there that prop up the alternative position. Let’s see what you got.

[Bundana]

Dempsey was and is an ATG. It’s only revisionists who do their best to distort the record that feel otherwise.

If you are talking Dempsey Wills this is another subject that has been discussed and concluded many decades ago. Dempsey was exonerated then and no new information has or will be found that changes this history. This, like Louis greatness technically, is not something that can be debated.

Watch the videos. Then post all the many videos I am sure are out there that prop up the alternative position. Let’s see what you got.

Yes, Dempsey is an ATG - no doubt about that. Just like Louis. Shouldn't even be up for debate.

But why can't we have a serious debate, about how much we should read into the over-the-top nonsense spewed out by guys like Arcel and Tunney in their later years?

But at the mere suggestion, that impressions from your youth can be so strong, that they later on sometimes cloud the picture - you go into complete denial, refusing to consider any argument that collide with your opinion.

All you can come up with, is that people who don't agree with you, don't know what they're talking about.

Anyway, you're obviously a knowledgeable poster - so I'd be interested in you honest opinion, re the claims made by Arcel and Tunney (and others) in the article I linked. Are they spot on, do you think... or is there so much fanboyism involved, that we maybe should take it all with a pinch of salt?

[HOUDINI563]

Again. Historically opinion counts PLENTY. No one is alive who saw say Dempsey live and in person. Now if all we had was Tunney and Arcel, the greatest technical boxer ever at heavyweight champions AND boxing’s greatest trainer, statements that’s quite a bit. But we don’t. We have a who’s who of the greatest minds of the day saying he was over the top great. Those same individuals do not say the same thing, or similar platitudes, regarding the other heavyweight champions around that time period up to Louis.

Arcel was actually critical of the Dempsey he saw fight John Lester Johnson in 1916 (“he did not look that hot”). However he was very clear as to the level of fighter he eventually became.

It’s all well and good to take contrary opinions concerning let’s say Jack Sharkeys abilities or even Tunney. However the overwhelming. beyond overwhelming, wealth of knowledge and thought regarding Louis cannot be denied. Was he a hero? Of course as was every great heavyweight champion. But to state he was just a war years glamorized hero of low skill is just ignorant. Actually wayyy beyond ignorant. He could do it all as a boxer/puncher. The videos tell the tale. In slow motion! Louis if he chose could side step, parry, slip, duck, block and counterpunch with the best of them. He normally used this style vs larger and or dangerous opppnents to soften them up and THEN go in for the kill. His bouts with M Baer, Carnera are good examples. Alternatively Louis would step in and out in setting traps as he stalked opponents. Here he did not need to side step and box, he was constantly looking for the kill.

[Bundana]

So do you, or don't you agree, with what is being said in that article I posted? Very simple question.

And do you, or don't you agree, that early impressions can be so strongly imprinted in you mind, that it may cause an old person to look back at his youth with rose-tinted glasses? Another very simple question!

[HOUDINI563]

The article quotes numerous experts of the time all of whom rate Dempsey very highly. Thus it’s not one mans opinion. It’s expert opinion and as such has great credibility. Again if this was all we had it would mean plenty but it’s not. During his time and historically Dempsey was considered an ATG fighter of a very high level. The predominant thought during his time was that Dempsey was a very high level great fighter.

Those same experts, and many others, do not give the same platitudes to other heavyweight champions from that time. So as an example Jack Sharkey, although considered during his time and historically as a very good fighter, is not given ATG status by these same experts (or others) nor has Sharkey historically been given ATG honors.

[Bundana]

So when some old-timers claim, that Dempsey would go through every champion that came after him, like they weren't even there - that's an opinion that has great credibility?

And that he would flatten Harry (Kid) Matthews, Walcott, Charles and Marciano, one after the other on the same night, in a total of 10 rounds (or, possibly, in a single round apiece!)... that sounds reasonable to you?

That Louis likely would go in the very first exchange of punches, that Foreman would get killed, that Tyson might survive the first round and make it into the second... sure, why not.

You want us to lap up all this BS without a critical question - and if someone has a sceptical mind, it must be because he doesn't know, what he's talking about, right?

Also, I'll ask you again... is it unreasonable to think, that some old-timers may remember the first fighters they idolized in their youth, as being the best they have ever seen, because they were more impressionable as youngsters?

[Rusty Tromboni]

- -Joe an offensive fighter like Robinson that made them fan favorites.

That leaves him more open to counters, hence the KDs.

Boxing 101. I can enroll U in my next semester.

How many fighters floored Benny Leonard, Jose Napoles, Tony Canzoneri, Sal Sanchez, Golovkin?