Rocky Marciano

[StarshipTrooper]

Yes, I agree But everyone of these boxers were under 200 pounds. Also the average height of a person went up less then 1-1/2" in the last 50 years and the weight is about 20 pounds more.

Once again, besides Joe Louis, Rocky never fought a TOP 10 Contender that weighed over 200 pounds and stood over 6 feet tall, and only fought 10 boxers in his hold career that was over 200 pounds.

Here's the boxers that went the distance with Rocky like you stated, a long with their weight and the record they had going into the bout with Rocky:

Don Mogard 187¼ - Record of 15-8-0
Ted Lowry at 177¾ & 180¾ - Records of 59-48-9 & 62-56-10
Roland LaStarza at 187 - Record of 37-0-0
Willis Red Applegate 196 - Record of 10-14-2
Ezzard Charles 185½ - Record of 80-10-1

Can anyone see Tyson, Frazier, Foreman not stopping any of these guys. Applegate was stopped 3 times.

Most Boxing Experts and Historians would agree that Rocky did box in an era that was pretty weak. Like I stated many times, just put Tyson, Frazier, Holmes, Ali or several other Heavyweight Champions in the same era as Rocky and have them box the same opponents as Rocky did, and see what their record would be.

I will say that Rocky had a much better career, BUT IMO Tyson, who would out weigh Rocky by 30 pounds, would be too powerful for him.

Well Harry, my entire point is that when comparing Heavyweights from different eras weight is irrelelavent. It's comparing apples and oranges. Tyson would NOT outweigh Marciano by 30 pounds if he grew up when Marciano did; the same dynamic works if Marciano grew up when Tyson did. This can be seen in every sport. Offensive lineman in the NFL weigh 40-50 pounds heavyier than they did in the 60'. The NBA had all of 1 seven footer in the 60' while today every team has 2-3. This isn't an accident it's a trend, and it's one that can't be ignored.

Poet

[Hawkins]

Yes, I agree But everyone of these boxers were under 200 pounds. Also the average height of a person went up less then 1-1/2" in the last 50 years and the weight is about 20 pounds more.

Once again, besides Joe Louis, Rocky never fought a TOP 10 Contender that weighed over 200 pounds and stood over 6 feet tall, and only fought 10 boxers in his hold career that was over 200 pounds.

Here's the boxers that went the distance with Rocky like you stated, a long with their weight and the record they had going into the bout with Rocky:

Don Mogard 187¼ - Record of 15-8-0
Ted Lowry at 177¾ & 180¾ - Records of 59-48-9 & 62-56-10
Roland LaStarza at 187 - Record of 37-0-0
Willis Red Applegate 196 - Record of 10-14-2
Ezzard Charles 185½ - Record of 80-10-1

Can anyone see Tyson, Frazier, Foreman not stopping any of these guys. Applegate was stopped 3 times.

Isn't that just an autonomous way of debating the career of Marciano? Most champs, as well as great fighters, have anomolies on their records such as these. Shouldn't Mike Tyson had totally annihilated Mitch Green, James Tillis, Bonecrusher Smith and Tony Tucker?

These guys are marginally below Tyson - yet he couldn't put them away. It all goes back to the question, not quality, of styles when dealing with this area of a fighter.

[hhascup]

Well Harry, my entire point is that when comparing Heavyweights from different eras weight is irrelelavent. It's comparing apples and oranges. Tyson would NOT outweigh Marciano by 30 pounds if he grew up when Marciano did; the same dynamic works if Marciano grew up when Tyson did. This can be seen in every sport. Offensive lineman in the NFL weigh 40-50 pounds heavyier than they did in the 60'. The NBA had all of 1 seven footer in the 60' while today every team has 2-3. This isn't an accident it's a trend, and it's one that can't be ignored.

Poet

Years ago, the Big men were not as Athletic as they are today and that is one of the reasons that they had very few 7 foot basketball players. There were several boxers that were near 7 foot taller, BUT again they weren't very good. Yes, if Rocky was around today, he would most likely weigh about 15 pounds more and be approx. an inch taller. That would bring him up to approx. 200 pounds and just under 6 foot. He still would be just a Cruiserweight. People always stated that Holyfield was a small Heavyweight, BUT he was over 200 pounds in 35 of his 53 bouts and was 6′ 2½″.

Another thing is that Rocky had a very short reach (68") for a Heavyweight, in fact I don't know of any other Heavyweight that had a shorter one. Also, when he had the TV show "Main Event," he would always say that he needed room to throw his Big bombs and he also stated that he never liked boxing on the inside.

[hhascup]

Isn't that just an autonomous way of debating the career of Marciano? Most champs, as well as great fighters, have anomolies on their records such as these. Shouldn't Mike Tyson had totally annihilated Mitch Green, James Tillis, Bonecrusher Smith and Tony Tucker?

These guys are marginally below Tyson - yet he couldn't put them away. It all goes back to the question, not quality, of styles when dealing with this area of a fighter.

I remember all these bouts and these guys just wanted to last the distance. They never took a chance of getting caught.

Green was 6′ 5″ - 225 pounds - Record of 16-1-1
Tillis was 6'1" - 207¾ pounds - Record of 31-8-0
Smith was 6'4" - 233 pounds - Record of 19-5-0
Tucker was 6′ 5″ - 221 pounds - Record of 35-0-0

In all these bouts BUT the Tillis one, Tyson won just about every round. These opponents are a lot different then the ones Rocky had, don't you think.

[Jim Jeffries]

I remember all these bouts and these guys just wanted to last the distance. They never took a chance of getting caught.

Green was 6′ 5″ - 225 pounds - Record of 16-1-1
Tillis was 6'1" - 207¾ pounds - Record of 31-8-0
Smith was 6'4" - 233 pounds - Record of 19-5-0
Tucker was 6′ 5″ - 221 pounds - Record of 35-0-0

In all these bouts BUT the Tillis one, Tyson won just about every round. These opponents are a lot different then the ones Rocky had, don't you think.

I disagree with Tucker, he had Tyson hurt at one point, mixed it up with him a bit, and definitely scooped a few rounds. Look at Buster Douglas' record in BEATING a prime Tyson, he was a 42-1 underdog.

[Hawkins]

I remember all these bouts and these guys just wanted to last the distance. They never took a chance of getting caught.

Green was 6′ 5″ - 225 pounds - Record of 16-1-1
Tillis was 6'1" - 207¾ pounds - Record of 31-8-0
Smith was 6'4" - 233 pounds - Record of 19-5-0
Tucker was 6′ 5″ - 221 pounds - Record of 35-0-0

In all these bouts BUT the Tillis one, Tyson won just about every round. These opponents are a lot different then the ones Rocky had, don't you think.

Not in perspective -

Of the bouts you mentioned of Marciano's only two are available for viewing. LaStarza and Charles. Those guys were boxers/technicians and would give any brawler trouble if they stayed on the outside like they did.

I have never seen the other bouts -

Most certainly LaStarza and Charles were taller, and had longer reach, than did Rocky. Lowry was as tall but I couldn't find a reach on him or the other two. But having said that shouldn't you afford the same luxury to Marciano?

Difficulty in dealing with taller opponents with decent skill/awkward style? There were styles Marciano had difficulty with as did Tyson.

[hemichromis]

tyson was also in a weak era so was holmes and even joe louis if you compare them to the 'golden era' of boxing 1966-1975 or thereabouts

[metalinmybrain]

I disagree with Tucker, he had Tyson hurt at one point, mixed it up with him a bit, and definitely scooped a few rounds. Look at Buster Douglas' record in BEATING a prime Tyson, he was a 42-1 underdog.

Tucker had just smashed Douglas before facing Tyson. Not only that but Tyson getting caught early in the rounds and being able to gather himself is a testament of his durability chin and heart. He was rocked by an uppercut similar to the one Douglas caught Tyson with to start the beginning to the end for Tyson in that fight. Mentally is where this question leads to, Tyson was mentally focused and refused to lose there for Tucker couldn't finish him no matter how hard he tried. Also remember that Tucker was undefeated and mentally never knew what it was like to suffer a defeat so that would make a big statement as well. For Tyson fighting in one of his worst performances against Tucker looked better than you think.

For instance, you they say Tyson fought his worse against Tucker Smith Green Tillis but in comparison, Marciano who fought his worse against allot of his opponents including an aging Archie Moore in which he was floored. Tyson still put forth a better performance because he virtually won almost every round against these opponents and never tasting the canvas once. Not to mention there wasn't even a scratch on his face. IMO Rocky Marciano's career of opponents weren't that great, there was no 50's era great heavyweight besides Marciano and everyone knows that.

[metalinmybrain]

Not in perspective -

Of the bouts you mentioned of Marciano's only two are available for viewing. LaStarza and Charles. Those guys were boxers/technicians and would give any brawler trouble if they stayed on the outside like they did.

I have never seen the other bouts -

Most certainly LaStarza and Charles were taller, and had longer reach, than did Rocky. Lowry was as tall but I couldn't find a reach on him or the other two. But having said that shouldn't you afford the same luxury to Marciano?

Difficulty in dealing with taller opponents with decent skill/awkward style? There were styles Marciano had difficulty with as did Tyson.

These styles you mention came from fighters who were all natural heavyweights, unlike Charles who Marciano had trouble with. Not to mention the very old Archie Moore.

[metalinmybrain]

Well I think you could point out the difference in Frazier and Marciano in the aspect that Frazier's money punch and main power punch was his left hook. He constantly had the left hook working. Marciano threw everything - rights and lefts and ****** them off of any part of your body with power.

Not disagreeing, just pointing out the subtle differences in their styles.

I'm pretty sure if rabbit punching and all the other ****ty tactics Marciano used to win were allowed in the era's of Frazier and Tyson they to would be knocking guys out faster and brutally leaving their victims damaged for good, IMO especially with Tyson!